The Arminian Lie Is A Gross Deception

SeventhDay

Well-known member
It is not by the will of man that one is regenerated and the born again process begins. One becomes a spiritual creation who hears the good news and responds to the message and receives the indwelling Holy Spirit by God's grace. Again, it is not by a free will choice but an influenced choice as a result of hearing from the word of God. It is not the faith of man but the faith of God working through man. A man is provided faith but it is God's faith at work in him.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Born again not by the will of man but the will of God which is why one can hear and receive the good news!

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is not the natural or carnal man that makes a free will choice to accept the good news but it is the spiritual man that makes an influenced choice to believe and accept what Jesus has done for him. The fact is that the old man is dead in Christ death and is being put away thus God is not even calling the old man to himself but the new spiritual man. It is one who has been quickened that God is calling and the faith of God is at work in him!

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The fact is if the old man dead in trespasses and sins is by his free will choice able to believe and accept the good news message then he is reconciling himself unto God and that is a complete lie. God is reconciling humanity onto to God not man! The fact is that salvation is all of God but man must work out his salvation through the Spirit of Christ at work in him. Jesus atoning for the sins of the world necessitates forgiveness and remission of sins but if there is not a change of nature from a natural disposition to a spiritual one then one can not be saved.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

To give credit for the old man or new spiritual man in making a free will choice to accept the good news message is a denial of Jesus atonement and it an outright lie and makes Jesus atonement a mockery. God bless you.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
It is not by the will of man that one is regenerated and the born again process begins. One becomes a spiritual creation who hears the good news and responds to the message and receives the indwelling Holy Spirit by God's grace. Again, it is not by a free will choice but an influenced choice as a result of hearing from the word of God. It is not the faith of man but the faith of God working through man. A man is provided faith but it is God's faith at work in him.
This can be taken in pieces as there are many ideas in your post.
I agree, and most Christians do, with this part: One becomes a spiritual creation who hears the good news and responds to the message and receives the indwelling Holy SPirit by God's grace.

Some places I'd disagree. regeneration does not begin the born again process, regeneration is being born again, Identical concepts.
You say the choice is based on the influence of hearing the Word but it is not a freewill choice. Influence does not eradicate free will,
God does not have faith, Faith is the conviction of things not seen. God sees everything. Faith is for those who don't see evrything.
So no, it is not God's faith, unless you mean it was given to us by God, but then it becomes ours.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
It is not the natural or carnal man that makes a free will choice to accept the good news but it is the spiritual man that makes an influenced choice to believe and accept what Jesus has done for him. The fact is that the old man is dead in Christ death and is being put away thus God is not even calling the old man to himself but the new spiritual man. It is one who has been quickened that God is calling and the faith of God is at work in him!
The good news also includes the idea that you can be born again, so how would it make sense to be born again before you can hear the good news promising you can be born again?
You say that the old man is dead in Christ, 1 Thess 4:16 is the only place I see that phrase, and there it means people who have experienced natural death who were in Christ before they died.
Again, being born again quickens you, which means brings you to life. and yes it is them, who are Christians, that God is calling to walk in faith.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
The fact is if the old man dead in trespasses and sins is by his free will choice able to believe and accept the good news message then he is reconciling himself unto God and that is a complete lie. God is reconciling humanity onto to God not man! The fact is that salvation is all of God but man must work out his salvation through the Spirit of Christ at work in him. Jesus atoning for the sins of the world necessitates forgiveness and remission of sins but if there is not a change of nature from a natural disposition to a spiritual one then one can not be saved.
Yes, the old man is reconciling himself to God. 2 Cor 5:20 we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Paul does not say we beg God to reconcile you to Himself, because God already did that 2 Cor 5:18 God who reconciled us to Himself
God is reconciled. and humans are begged to reconcile with God.

The change of nature comes at regeneration aka being born again, aka Christ indwelling us
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
To give credit for the old man or new spiritual man in making a free will choice to accept the good news message is a denial of Jesus atonement and it an outright lie and makes Jesus atonement a mockery. God bless you.
I would like to see how saying "Yes" to Jesus is a denial of His atonement, The atonement means that God;s anger was soothed. That wall between Him and us was brought down by the atonement, In Christ, God is not angry at sin. but as stated earlier God has reconciled Himself and the call is for himans to be reconciled to God.

Making a mockery of His atonment? When a person accepts that Jesus died for their sin, and that His blood soothed God's anger against us, and that by receiving Jesus they can be safe from God's wrath all because of the atonement, where is mockery? What are you seeing?
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
I would like to see how saying "Yes" to Jesus is a denial of His atonement, The atonement means that God;s anger was soothed. That wall between Him and us was brought down by the atonement, In Christ, God is not angry at sin. but as stated earlier God has reconciled Himself and the call is for himans to be reconciled to God.

Making a mockery of His atonment? When a person accepts that Jesus died for their sin, and that His blood soothed God's anger against us, and that by receiving Jesus they can be safe from God's wrath all because of the atonement, where is mockery? What are you seeing?
Carefully read what was said. Thank you. God bless you. 🙂
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
Yes, the old man is reconciling himself to God. 2 Cor 5:20 we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Paul does not say we beg God to reconcile you to Himself, because God already did that 2 Cor 5:18 God who reconciled us to Himself
God is reconciled. and humans are begged to reconcile with God.

The change of nature comes at regeneration aka being born again, aka Christ indwelling us
Again, carefully read the post! God bless you. 🙂
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
The good news also includes the idea that you can be born again, so how would it make sense to be born again before you can hear the good news promising you can be born again?
You say that the old man is dead in Christ, 1 Thess 4:16 is the only place I see that phrase, and there it means people who have experienced natural death who were in Christ before they died.
Again, being born again quickens you, which means brings you to life. and yes it is them, who are Christians, that God is calling to walk in faith.
Being born from above begins with regeneration even before God calls us to himself. Yet when Christ calls us to him we are spiritual creations and when we receive God's calling through the faith of God that is at work in us through God's grace. When we do believe we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit and God imparts his life to us. You must read carefully my post and not gloss over it. God bless you.
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
If a person is born again, they have already received the Good News and responded to it. And what is the Good News? That Christ died for our sins and by faith in Him, as opposed to works, we can be saved.
Being born from above starts with regeneration and is a continual process of regeneration which requires sanctification and purification and many other things. One who is born of God does not sin. What does that tell you? It is not as some teach habitually sin. The fact is one is born of the Spirit but it is a spiritual birth process until one is spiritual mature or spiritually complete. Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. God bless you. 🙂
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
This can be taken in pieces as there are many ideas in your post.
I agree, and most Christians do, with this part: One becomes a spiritual creation who hears the good news and responds to the message and receives the indwelling Holy SPirit by God's grace.

Some places I'd disagree. regeneration does not begin the born again process, regeneration is being born again, Identical concepts.
You say the choice is based on the influence of hearing the Word but it is not a freewill choice. Influence does not eradicate free will,
God does not have faith, Faith is the conviction of things not seen. God sees everything. Faith is for those who don't see evrything.
So no, it is not God's faith, unless you mean it was given to us by God, but then it becomes ours.
Volition is one thing which we have but "free" will is something we do not have because if we had it we would not need to make influenced choices. However, we can not make choices without influences and neither can God!

It is clear from scriptures that we are buried with Christ in his death therefore God has put away the old man and is not interested him but rather the new spiritual man quickened out of death. Thus, in regard to regeneration or being born from above begins before God calls the new spiritual man to himself. The new spiritual man is under the influence of the Holy Spirit in the choices he makes this it is not free will choices. God works in us to will and do of his good pleasure.

Faith is a gift of God but it is God's faith not man's faith to do whatever he wants. The righteous lives by faith and without faith it is impossible to please God. God's righteous is imputed on to us through what Jesus accomplished therefore we can do God's will because God's faith is at work in us and that is the gift we respond to. Christ in us is a gift and this gift is the indwelling Holy Spirit in us which is the Spirit of Christ.

Only a spiritual man can hear and hearken to the Word of God which is our faith.

God's faith becoming ours is still God's faith!

God bless you. 🙂

 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
Yes, the old man is reconciling himself to God. 2 Cor 5:20 we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Paul does not say we beg God to reconcile you to Himself, because God already did that 2 Cor 5:18 God who reconciled us to Himself
God is reconciled. and humans are begged to reconcile with God.

The change of nature comes at regeneration aka being born again, aka Christ indwelling us
It is the new spiritual man who must reconcile himself on to God through what Jesus has accomplished through the faith of God at work in him God is reconciling man back to God and we must reconcile with that fact. However, it is God reconciling us to God not man. God bless you. 🙂
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Being born from above begins with regeneration even before God calls us to himself. Yet when Christ calls us to him we are spiritual creations and when we receive God's calling through the faith of God that is at work in us through God's grace. When we do believe we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit and God imparts his life to us. You must read carefully my post and not gloss over it. God bless you.
I read your entire post as well as the scriptures you cited. There was no glossing over and I am addressing your points. But maybe we will have some profitable chats about some of your ideas
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
I would like to see how saying "Yes" to Jesus is a denial of His atonement, The atonement means that God;s anger was soothed. That wall between Him and us was brought down by the atonement, In Christ, God is not angry at sin. but as stated earlier God has reconciled Himself and the call is for himans to be reconciled to God.

Making a mockery of His atonment? When a person accepts that Jesus died for their sin, and that His blood soothed God's anger against us, and that by receiving Jesus they can be safe from God's wrath all because of the atonement, where is mockery? What are you seeing?
God is not being soothed and Jesus is not a scapegoat who is appeasing God's anger. What a pagan doctrine that is. Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world but is not God's scapegoat! God bless you.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Volition is one thing which we have but "free" will is something we do not have because if we had it we would not need to make influenced choices. However, we can not make choices without influences and neither can God!

It is clear from scriptures that we are buried with Christ in his death therefore God has put away the old man and is not interested him but rather the new spiritual man quickened out of death. Thus, in regard to regeneration or being born from above begins before God calls the new spiritual man to himself. The new spiritual man is under the influence of the Holy Spirit in the choices he makes this it is not free will choices. God works in us to will and do of his good pleasure.

Faith is a gift of God but it is God's faith not man's faith to do whatever he wants. The righteous lives by faith and without faith it is impossible to please God. God's righteous is imputed on to us through what Jesus accomplished therefore we can do God's will because God's faith is at work in us and that is the gift we respond to. Christ in us is a gift and this gift is the indwelling Holy Spirit in us which is the Spirit of Christ.

Only a spiritual man can hear and hearken to the Word of God which is our faith.

God's faith becoming ours is still God's faith!

God bless you. 🙂
faith is not an item on a shelf that God hands out. And again, God does not need faith,
faith sees, and faith is willing to entrust to God,
So neither does God personally need faith, nor is it something He has in stock to hand out,
He does give a measure of faith, ebough so we can know He exists
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
God is not being soothed and Jesus is not a scapegoat who is appeasing God's anger. What a pagan doctrine that is. Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world but is not God's scapegoat! God bless you.
If you claim that atonement does not soothe Gods anger, then you seem to know nothing of His wrath nor what atonement is for.
It seems your ideas come from outside scripture.
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
faith is not an item on a shelf that God hands out. And again, God does not need faith,
faith sees, and faith is willing to entrust to God,
So neither does God personally need faith, nor is it something He has in stock to hand out,
He does give a measure of faith, ebough so we can know He exists
What makes you think that God does not have faith and does not need it? Do you think that God has no faith concerning his promises or the council of his own will or that his purposes will be accomplished? If God has no faith then we do not need it either! God bless you. 🙂
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
If you claim that atonement does not soothe Gods anger, then you seem to know nothing of His wrath nor what atonement is for.
It seems your ideas come from outside scripture.
Seems is all that you can see based upon my ideas but my concepts come from the scriptures not outside the scriptures.

I did not say that God does not have wrath towards man's sin but God does not needed to be soothed. Such a concept is not scriptural but pagan! God sent his Son into the world to deliver us from sin but not to sooth is wrath. Jesus is not a scapegoat but is a scarifies offering for our sins which shows God's' love for humanity not his wrath.! God bless you. 🙂
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
What makes you think that God does not have faith and does not need it? Do you think that God has no faith concerning his promises or the council of his own will or that his purposes will be accomplished? If God has no faith then we do not need it either! God bless you. 🙂
Heb 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
God does not hope; He knows/
There is nothing God does not see.
This definition of faith in Hebrews 11, tells you that God does not have faith. I already posted this to you in the thread
Can you respond to Hebrews 11:1?
 
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