If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be experienced and known to exist is in and with a believing mind, then there is no way for God to exist because all minds are rooted in physical biology. There are no minds or thoughts or truths or knowledge without physical brains. None silly. Absolutely none.
The atheist delusion.
- Thread starter Tercon
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Your evidence is?
Actually the truth is that even physicality requires a believing mind in order to exist, so this as steered QM to conclude that wave function collapse requires a believing mind in order to occur. Therefore, reality entails a believing mind in order for anything to occur, including the truth, math, language, consciousness, existence, logic and reality itself. And you cannot show otherwise silly.
I don't have to show that at all. Normal people, even Christians, already know the difference between reality and perception so I don't need to engage in that proof. That is your uphill battle, bub. All I have to tell you is that there are no believing minds without physical brains. And you can't show otherwise, silly. You can't even show it logically possible. Go ahead and try. We crushed every syllogism you attempted so far as wrong in almost every premise you proposed.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
I've refuted it a thousand times over. You just haven't been paying attention. Again, your premise is ambiguous - intentionally so, according to your earlier post. You conflate knowledge of reality and the existence of reality. No-one denies that knowledge must be located in minds, but your conclusion requires more than this. It requires reality itself to only be able to be located in a mind, and that is false - the alternative location is MIPUST, which you've never been able to disprove. You just keep getting confused about what mind-independence means, conflating knowledge and existence a second time by wrongly thinking that we'd have to be able to know MIPUST without using our minds. You also ignore the point, now being made against you by several posters, that you cannot locate reality in anything else, as that something else would then by definition not exist or be real. But by all means, keep telling yourself you haven't been refuted. No-one else will believe that lie, but you might be able to convince yourself - after all, your epistemic standards are clearly not very high, so you should find yourself easy to convince.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
How come you can't recognize when you've been refuted?
Unfortunately all the collapsing has occurred between your own ears.
Because you have not refuted anything.
Hmmm, thanks for the compliment, even if you don't know how and why it is, I will still take it.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
And yet I have. Put on your big boy pants and try dealing with the refutations you've been given:
No you haven't.
Low epistemic standards = "knowledge and experience requires a mind".
High epistemic standards = If the truth and reality cannot be known or experienced without a believing mind, then the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known and experienced is in and with a believing mind.
It eliminates all ambiguity as to where, how and why the truth and reality is known to exist, experienced and also highlights the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to reside.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
Yes I have. You just ignored it once again.
This doesn't address what I said, and no, you still haven't removed the ambiguity.
If you a believing mind is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to exist and occur, then how is it possible that the truth and reality can be known to exist or occur anywhere else but a believing mind?
bigthinker
Well-known member
Whateverman
Well-known member
Christians have had your last thread deleted.
Where do you get the cojones to lecture others via the same deleted rhetoric?
So you must have evidence nature caused the universe, the fine tuning of the universe and life. Present it.
Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
And you have an infinite number of unbeliefs, just like us.
Strawman and projection. Actually there is no way that any "LACK of belief" or "unbelief" can be known to exist in reality, because all knowledge of reality requires a belief and not a unbelief. And it is only unbelievers who believe they can know their own unbelief exists in reality, because believing one's unbelief can be known to exist in reality is the epitome of ignorance.
Lion IRC
Active member
This... lack of belief... "non-stamp collector" trope is just a lazy bait and switch by atheists who want to talk a big game acting like they know best. And then retreat to the neutral corner whenever it suits them. #schmatheism
Your signature says;
"Strong atheism: the belief that no gods exist."
Therefore really really strong atheism is the really really strong belief that no gods exist.
And moderately strong atheism is the moderately strong belief that no gods exist.
And mild atheism is the mild belief that no gods exist.
Are you seeing the pattern here?
Look. Let me break it down for you.
If you think there's no God(s) that's either ;
- a matter of pure faith/belief. (In which case, you're doing what you accuse Christians of doing.)
OR
- a rationally held, evidence-based, tentative proposition. (In which case, you should be able to justify your position with reason, logic and evidence.)
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Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
You keep using the term 'strawman' but demonstrate each time that you do not know what it means.
You have an infinite number of unbeliefs. Same as we do.
Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
Sorry, but false. Atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of gods. That's what the word means.
I'm seeing a bunch of nonsense.
None of that changes - or even addresses - anything I've said.
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