The atheist delusion.


Well-known member
The only a Believing Mind we are aware of is our own. Therefore the logical truth, reality, morality, consciousness and God can only be products of our own believing mind.
Doesn't it follow that is no one believes, then God cannot exist?
But if God exists (which he does) then he exists apart from anyone believing that he exists. His existence is not contingent upon belief.
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Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Irrelevant. You have unbeliefs, precisely the same as I do. Everything you say about our unbeliefs are equally true of yours.
I have repeatedly refuted it and it is, again, refuted by the fact that I know infinitely many truths.
Not at issue. What is at issue is your false statement that I cannot know the truth. I can and do.
Not at issue. What is at issue is your false statement that I cannot know the truth. I can and do.
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Well-known member
See. Now you changed the argument because you got caught in your lie again. Now your argument is:

"And nothing can be known to exist or occur to you without a believing mind"

"Occur to you" is much different than "Occur in reality"

I don't see a refutation of what I said, all I see is ad hominem attack.


Active member
When you make the mistake or pretend that you can know the truth and reality existence or occurrence without the benefit of a believing mind
I haven't made this mistake. Knowledge of anything requires a believing mind.

You're the one who claims that reality can only exist in a believing mind.

That's where you and babies fail to understand object permanence.

ps. your above quote was word salad. Are you getting flustered by the truth?


Well-known member
Strawman. My claim isn't about "a disembodied God-mind". My claim is about how and why the truth and reality is known to us, my truth claims are based on the ONLY way and place the truth and reality is known to us. And you have done nothing to refute that. Just more blustering bluffery on your part.
You are lying again. You are aware of the contentious element in your idea because you are leaving it out now as we are watching you closely here. You have extracted out the language where a believing mind causes reality to occur. Not occur to oneself, but just occur.


Well-known member
This literally makes no intelligible sense.

Are you claiming that things that can only be understood by a mind must therefore only exist in the mind?
One's understanding does not come through any of the senses other than the intellect. The intellect only understands what exists to the intellect. The intellect can never deal with anything directly, but only derivatively.
If so, then I don't understand this, and it therefore must not exist.
There are plenty of things which exist which are unintelligible or incomprehensible, e.g. infinity, ufo's etc..


Well-known member
That isn't true, I am aware of many other believing minds (including my family's) and including God's.

And I am also aware that, if the only way and place that anything that exists and occurs, including these things above that can only be known to exist or occur is in and with a believing mind, then a believing mind must be the basis of everything's existence, because outside or without a believing mind nothing can be known to exist or occur. And the existence of a Believing Mind logically entails a Being.
What you call awareness is just a product of your believing mind. You cannot enter into and experience any other believing mind. You can know nothing to exist or occur outside of your believing mind.

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Yes, that's why a believing mind is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you.
Which nobody has ever disputed.

Actually if one believes in accordance with the First Believing Mind, then that same one too gets to host the truth and reality of God.
You have provided zero evidence that there was a "First Believing Mind" or, if there is, that that mind has anything to do with any deity, much less the Christian god.


Well-known member

I have a believing mind. What you are saying doesn't ring true to me.

Paul in Romans 1 wrote this about unbelievers that are said to KNOW God and KNOW ABOUT God:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those who by their injustice suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world God’s eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been seen and understood through the things God has made. So they are without excuse, 21 for though they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools
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