The atheist delusion.

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Strawman. I believe that justified true beliefs are real beliefs that relate to the truth and reality. If you think that "false belief are real" beliefs, then you need to provide more evidence than a dictionary definition of "belief", because sane people don't regards "false beliefs" as real belief. But sane people consider and define justified true beliefs as knowledge of the truth and reality.



You mean like real beliefs as in justified true beliefs?



You mean like "false beliefs"?



Yes, all justified true beliefs are real beliefs that make up knowledge of the truth and reality.



Yes, justified true beliefs make up the truth and reality. And all other notions are considered "false belief" and fake beliefs, that have nothing to do with the truth and reality.



Strawman. No, I am the one claiming that all justified true beliefs are real beliefs and represent reality. You are the one suggesting that "false beliefs are" real belief in reality.

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If you think that "false belief are real" beliefs, then you need to provide more evidence than a dictionary definition of "belief",
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This is nothing to do with sanity or insanity. It is not insane to believe something mistakenly. No one is calling you insane.

All beliefs are real beliefs. Some are true and justified. Others are not true or justified. It is the truth and the justification that distinguishes them. All beliefs are equally real. They are not all equally justified or equally true.
Yes, justified true beliefs make up the truth and reality.
Wrong. They describe truth and reality and allow us to interact with it. Truth and reality exists whether they are believed or not.
And all other notions are considered "false belief" and fake beliefs, that have nothing to do with the truth and reality.
Except that they are part of reality being real beliefs. Belief in aliens exists, as does the belief that there are no aliens. Both are a real beliefs, held by millions. It may be true. It may not be. It is not the belief that will determine whether or not it is true, but the evidence. When the evidence is in we will know which belief about aliens is true and which is false. Until then they are just beliefs, but equally real.
Strawman. No, I am the one claiming that all justified true beliefs are real beliefs and represent reality. You are the one suggesting that "false beliefs are" real belief in reality.
Thank you for once again illustrating that your belief that "Strawman" is an appropriate response is false. Real, but false.
 
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Lol. You have no idea what you are talking about, because you don't know or understand what the word belief means.

But I do know what real beliefs are, real beliefs are justified true beliefs in reality and not falsely believing "false belief are real" beliefs. That's insanity.
 
Sure I do. I believe that justified true beliefs define my knowledge of the truth and reality.

What do you believe belief is?
No, that's what knowledge is. We are not talking about justified true beliefs. Just regular beliefs.
Maybe justified, maybe true, beliefs.

Cite a dictionary definition of what belief is and we'll go from there.
 
But I do know what real beliefs are, real beliefs are justified true beliefs in reality and not falsely believing "false belief are real" beliefs. That's insanity.
A belief doesn't have to be true and justified.

You would know this if you knew what the definition of the word belief. Look it up in a dictionary.
 
No, that's what knowledge is. We are not talking about justified true beliefs. Just regular beliefs.
Maybe justified, maybe true, beliefs.

Sorry, but I can't pretend that I believe that real beliefs are anything but justified true beliefs.

The key word in this context in the phrase 'justified true belief' is 'belief' and 'justified true beliefs' are still beliefs in reality.

If you want to pretend that "false beliefs are real" beliefs, then knock yourself out, but just don't expect everyone else to go along with your folly.

Cite a dictionary definition of what belief is and we'll go from there.
No, that's what knowledge is. We are not talking about justified true beliefs. Just regular beliefs.
Maybe justified, maybe true, beliefs.

Cite a dictionary definition of what belief is and we'll go from there.

Here is what I believe 'real belief' is in reality, it is called justified true belief and it defines knowledge of the truth and reality. But if think your "definition of belief" is adequate to make the truth and reality known to you, then put it in this thread and make your case for it, because none of you have yet done so. This part is particularly interesting.
 
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Sorry, but I can't pretend that I believe that real beliefs are anything but justified true beliefs.

The key word in this context in the phrase 'justified true belief' is 'belief' and 'justified true beliefs' are still beliefs in reality.

If you want to pretend that "false beliefs are real" beliefs, then knock yourself out, but just don't expect everyone else to go along with your folly.




Here is what I believe 'real belief' is in reality, it is called justified true belief and it defines knowledge of the truth and reality. But if think your "definition of belief" is adequate to make the truth and reality known to you, then put it in this thread and make your case for it, because none of you have yet done so. This part is particularly interesting.
The link that is particularly interesting is indeed. It also on several occasions refers to beliefs that are in fact false, though believed to be true. The section is a good analysis of what justified true belief is, something that everybody here agrees with. Sadly for you it also illustrates how false beliefs exist in reality, and how false beliefs may also be justified, and even true, without being knowledge. You would do well to read the link yourself, though given your ability to ignore the arguments put to you here, I doubt that you would actually learn anything.
 
Except that if atheists are wrong, then so are those who don't believe in anything they don't see, from Santa Claus to invisible dragons. Everyone has something that they don't believe in. I'm trying to imagine what the wold would be like if every single "unbelief" was false. Welcome the verruca gnome and the Oh God! of hangovers.
Hmmn . Aa far as you are concerned, we can show you the testimony and say we believe it, and we can show you a woman.. We cant prove God exists but we can prove what a woman is. The former is faith, the latter is reality.
 
The link that is particularly interesting is indeed. It also on several occasions refers to beliefs that are in fact false, though believed to be true. The section is a good analysis of what justified true belief is, something that everybody here agrees with. Sadly for you it also illustrates how false beliefs exist in reality, and how false beliefs may also be justified, and even true, without being knowledge. You would do well to read the link yourself, though given your ability to ignore the arguments put to you here, I doubt that you would actually learn anything.

Yes of course, they are called "false beliefs" and do not refer to nor do they denote the truth or reality. Real beliefs are justified true beliefs that only refer to and denote the truth and reality. What don't you understand about this?

Like I have already said, if you want to falsely believe that "false beliefs are real" beliefs; then knock yourself out. But just don't expect everyone to believe your obvious folly in order to cover up the shear depravity of the atheist's POV.

You're not presenting me with any real "arguments" here, you are just deceived into falsely believing that "false beliefs are real" belief in reality. When any sane person knows that "false beliefs" are not real beliefs in reality. Real beliefs are justified true beliefs and represent and define knowledge of the truth and reality. You are wallowing in a self-induce delusion, if you think "false beliefs are real beliefs" period, because it is logically impossible for that to be true.
 
Yes of course, they are called "false beliefs" and do not refer to nor do they denote the truth or reality. Real beliefs are justified true beliefs that only refer to and denote the truth and reality. What don't you understand about this?
There is no suggestion in your link that false beliefs are not real. Quite the contrary. It is specifically stated that people can have real false beliefs are given. You are simply wrong on this.
Like I have already said, if you want to falsely believe that "false beliefs are real" beliefs; then knock yourself out. But just don't expect everyone to believe your obvious folly in order to cover up the shear depravity of the atheist's POV.
False beliefs are real is what your link says. The link you put forward to support your position. It is quite clear that your real belief that your link would strengthen your position was false.
You're not presenting me with any real "arguments" here, you are just deceived into falsely believing that "false beliefs are real" belief in reality. When any sane person knows that "false beliefs" are not real beliefs in reality. Real beliefs are justified true beliefs and represent and define knowledge of the truth and reality. You are wallowing in a self-induce delusion, if you think "false beliefs are real beliefs" period, because it is logically impossible for that to be true.
You are not presenting me with English sentences that make sense. People believe things. Sometimes what they believe is not true. These are facts that no one else on the planet would disagree with. There is no getting away from these facts. You are wrong.
 
There is no suggestion in your link that false beliefs are not real. Quite the contrary. It is specifically stated that people can have real false beliefs are given. You are simply wrong on this.

Show where it explicitly says that "false beliefs are real beliefs" that represent and denote the truth and reality.

However, in reality the link does define justified true beliefs as knowledge of the truth and reality. And I believe that justified true beliefs represent the truth and denote reality. If you think differently, then make your case.

False beliefs are real is what your link says. The link you put forward to support your position. It is quite clear that your real belief that your link would strengthen your position was false.
You are not presenting me with English sentences that make sense. People believe things. Sometimes what they believe is not true. These are facts that no one else on the planet would disagree with. There is no getting away from these facts. You are wrong.

You're delusional. Show where it says that "false beliefs are real beliefs" that represent and denote the truth and reality.
 
Except that if atheists are wrong, then so are those who don't believe in anything they don't see, from Santa Claus to invisible dragons. Everyone has something that they don't believe in. I'm trying to imagine what the wold would be like if every single "unbelief" was false. Welcome the verruca gnome and the Oh God! of hangovers.

Unbelief is inherently false, because it is just a lack of something that does occur in reality and that being belief. But unbelief has no object of belief, because it is literally a lack there of something occurring in reality. Understand?
 
Let me see if I can condense and translate this into a more coherent post:

Sorry just seeing this now.
If one must believe what they see

Actually everyone must believe in order for the truth and reality to be known to them. That's what belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known means.

And atheists don't believe what they don't see.

Actually there are things that exist in reality that can't be seen, but without those things the truth and reality is unknowable to you. For instance, belief can't be seen, but it must occur before the truth and reality is made known to you. Abstract ideas like, the truth, morality, existence, consciousness, logic and reality itself are all abstract in nature. And none of them can be known or experienced without or outside of a believing mind. So, a believing mind must be fundamental in all abstract idea's experience, existence and occurrence.

then atheists believe what they don't believe which is a delusion

I think this is essentially what you're saying, and on some level it makes sense to a certain degree.

Actually atheism is just a unbelief like any other unbelief. And like any other unbelief lacks any object of belief in order to make it known to exist or occur in reality.
 
Unbelief is inherently false, because it is just a lack of something that does occur in reality and that being belief. But unbelief has no object of belief, because it is literally a lack there of something occurring in reality. Understand?

It's become clear that you have no interest in learning the truth. You won't look up the actual meaning of the word "belief" because you clearly know that it will undermine all of your efforts to make belief into something that it isn't.
 
It's become clear that you have no interest in learning the truth. You won't look up the actual meaning of the word "belief" because you clearly know that it will undermine all of your efforts to make belief into something that it isn't.

I know what real belief is in reality, it is called justified true beliefs.

If you have something other than justified true beliefs that represent the truth and denote reality, then post it below so we can compare the two to see which represents the truth and denote reality. Otherwise, you are evading and know you have no argument to begin with.
 
I know what real belief is in reality, it is called justified true beliefs.

If you have something other than justified true beliefs that represent the truth and denote reality, then post it below so we can compare the two to see which represents the truth and denote reality. Otherwise, you are evading and know you have no argument to begin with.

Not all beliefs are true and justified. They are still beliefs. Another word for belief is opinion.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
 
Beliefs do not always "represent the truth and denote reality". Because beliefs can be wrong.

Why do you not understand that beliefs can be wrong?

You mean of course "false beliefs" "can be wrong". But I have already told you that I am not referring to nor denoting "false beliefs" in relation to the truth and reality. Are you?

When I speak about something I believe or my belief; I am always referring to and denoting a justified true belief and something I know to true in reality.

But will you at least admit that justified true beliefs are beliefs that represent the truth and denote reality?
 
You mean of course "false beliefs" can be wrong. But I have already told you that I am not referring to nor denoting "false beliefs" in relation to the truth and reality. Are you?

When I speak about something I believe or my belief; I am always referring to and denoting a justified true belief and something I know to true in reality.

But will you at least admit that justified true beliefs are beliefs that represent the truth and denote reality?
Nope, you are not. You are referring to your beliefs which you believe to be true and justified. In reality they are neither true nor justified. They are just beliefs, and false beliefs at that. Of course you think that they are true, because that's what belief means, the opinion that something is true. And just like opinions, beliefs can be objectively wrong. Just like yours, as detailed early. You can claim until you are blue in the face that your beliefs are true, but your claims are not rooted in reality, and your beliefs are just that. Beliefs.
 
Nope, you are not. You are referring to your beliefs which you believe to be true and justified. In reality they are neither true nor justified.
They are just beliefs, and false beliefs at that. Of course you think that they are true, because that's what belief means, the opinion that something is true. And just like opinions, beliefs can be objectively wrong. Just like yours, as detailed early. You can claim until you are blue in the face that your beliefs are true, but your claims are not rooted in reality, and your beliefs are just that. Beliefs.

If I believe that justified true beliefs are knowledge of the truth and reality; is this belief a justified true belief that represents the truth and denotes reality?
 
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