The atheist delusion.

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Caroljeen

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Nice fake poetic string of further nonsensical unrelated spillage there. But instead of playing Frank Zappa of the CARM set with some try at experimental blathering (Mr. Magoo wasn't aware he was damn near blind, I get it, oooooooooooh), why not lower yourself to the mundane prosaic realm and enlighten us non-artistic types as to how reality can be fiction?
The delusional reality we live in day by day in the natural world is the opposite of the truth we realize in the reality of the kingdom of God. Where the wise are foolish and the foolish are wise. The strong are weak and the weak are strong. Where victory is found in death and love motivates instead of hate. It's contrast of opposites between delusion and truth.

 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
The delusional reality we live in day by day in the natural world is the opposite of the truth we realize in the reality of the kingdom of God. Where the wise are foolish and the foolish are wise. The strong are weak and the weak are strong. Where victory is found in death and love motivates instead of hate. It's contrast of opposites between delusion and truth.

Reality is real. The delusions within that real reality are real delusions.
 

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
Nice fake poetic string of further nonsensical unrelated spillage there. But instead of playing Frank Zappa of the CARM set with some try at experimental blathering (Mr. Magoo wasn't aware he was damn near blind, I get it, oooooooooooh), why not lower yourself to the mundane prosaic realm and enlighten us non-artistic types as to how reality can be fiction?

If I were original I would think your response banal and insipid. Something like this.


 

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
But you're not, so you had to resort to a couple of videos by a guy that I referenced. But you did that in reality, so therefore I guess you were deluded into thinking you really did, eh?

At least a solipsist thinks his own thoughts are real.

Ah, but you see he's delusional. Really delusional.
 

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
Do you actually believe that reality is fictional and delusional? Or did you get confused when you were typing the above?

Reality: the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

Reality is an abstract construct. If homosexuality is perceived as perversion that perception dictates reality. If the perception changes and it's celebrated that becomes reality. The sexuality hasn't changed. Only the perception. The acceptance. So, does reality depend upon the perception or is it concrete? Instead of homosexuality it could be history, religion, sociopolitical, cultural. Is your reality the same as mine? The same as our ancestors? Is it constant?

When I was very young I wanted to be a race car driver when I grew up so whenever I could I would go with my old man and he'd let me drive on back roads. He would also tell me about reality. A staunch Democrat, he presented the poor as the good people and downtrodden and the rich as evil parasites. Love the poor and hate the rich, he told me. It didn't take me long to see through that. He actually hated anyone richer or poorer than him and only thought of himself as poor. He had been very poor growing up but by the time I came along he was pretty well off.

From about 11-12 I was fat and ugly. People gave me a pretty hard time. I grew out of that by the time I was into my mid teens and women and girls of all ages fawned over me. I saw their behavior as mocking me because I still perceived myself as that fat ugly kid.

Those are examples of reality.
 
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Semmelweis Reflex

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When a real volcano really explodes into reality, no one is conforming to anything. It would explode with or without your silly conceptions of how real it is.

So? Does that equally apply to all social constructs, culture, tradition, religion, politics, spirituality and the delusions you yourself said are equally conceptualized. How many volcanoes exploding have you experienced? If very near would you necessarily be dead and if not your reality differ from another's and how would you judge theirs? By what? Conceptually could a volcano explosion be misinterpreted historically or fabricated, exaggerated or manipulated by some nefarious state?

I first heard about the "pandemic" months before it happened, as a video clip that was a simulation that actually occurred and was more a rehearsal than anything. It was brought to my attention by some conspiracy theorist nut who thought that they, the elite, were going to do it. I laughed at it. They couldn't pull that off. Later I discovered there were dozens of these simulations going back decades. Pamphlets were made describing lockdowns, masks etc. Then I dug deeper and found out "they" had been doing this going back at least to the early 1900s.

I didn't buy into the 911 truth conspiracies for quite some time, then realized it was certainly an inside job. Then discovered false flag operations were nothing new. The Christians were accused of burning down Rome when it was the Romans. The Germans set up the Polish by dressing up some mentally handicapped homeless kid when they burned their own capital building. I used to think that holocaust deniers were disgusting racists then I discovered a young Jewish student who had some very real problems with much of the wartime propaganda that forms the majority's perception on that. You can get arrested in some places for just questioning the accepted narrative. When I first got online I discovered income tax was unconstitutional, and history was full of nationalistic myths.

Don't swim until at least after a half hour of eating. Drink at least eight 8 ounce glasses of water per day. The British are coming! George Washington was the first US president. The sky is blue, grass is green.

Not to mention the nonsense disguised as Christian teachings that are Greek philosophy. Did I ever mention that?

Well, who decides which of these things are reality? The Christian? The Atheist?
 
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stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
How many volcanoes exploding have you experienced?

None, but I'm not stupid enough to think that reports about them having occurred are all fiction. Did you forget what you said?

"More accurately, people who thing[sic] reality isn't fictional are delusional."

Are volcanoes real? Yes or no?

I didn't buy into the 911 truth conspiracies for quite some time, then realized it was certainly an inside job.

OK, say no more. You're a nutcase. I've suspected that for quite some time. Maybe volcanoes are also an inside job, eh? Now here's where you tell me about the temperature at which steel melts, right? But even so, that would either be non-reality or IF reality, therefore fiction, right, so why bother mentioning it? Mohammed Atta and eighteen others sacrificed their lives for George W. Bush, right?

Don't bother to respond. I lost interest in this nonsense many years ago.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
What is the difference between "sending somebody a delusion", and lying to them?
That is a good question. The obvious answer is that there is no practical difference. Therefore, is Paul implying that the heavenly Father lies or does Paul presume some other ”God” lies, implying more than one ”so-called God.” In context, he could be referring to the “lawless one” who claims to be “God.”

“the [first primal Adam in heaven] man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple [body?] of God, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thess 2:3)

which correlates with the same ”God of this [material] world” who blinds people from perceiving Christ. (2 Cor 4:4)

This just goes to show that unless one defines the word “God” then people end up talk past one another, —talking in circles. Paul clearly believed in many “so-called” Gods, but only recognized ONE true God.

“although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,” (1 cor 8:5)

Clearly, the “God of this [material] world” is neither the heavenly Father or true God to Jewish-Christians in the first century. Unfortunately, Christian orthodoxy of the second century could not tell the difference and still cannot tell the difference, for this ”so-called God” has been identified by Christian orthodoxy as BOTH the Christian God and Satan throughout history of the church, whereas, the original founders of Christianity only identified Elyon as the true absolute good God. iOW, one of the “so-called gods” has turned against heaven when he fell to earth and deceived humanity into worshipping him in all his imperfections: jealousy, wrath, genocidal tendencies, lying, etc.

Look here,
(2:8) “The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,

compare with,

“(2:11) “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,

Therefore, Satan =“God of this world”. Now ask yourself, who formed this material world according to scripture? Who tried to keep humans from knowledge or wisdom according to scripture? Who sowed thorns and thistles in the world so that humans might suffer and die? Who accuses and condemns humans for their sins? Answer: the same one who proclaims himself the only God.
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
What is the difference between "sending somebody a delusion", and lying to them?
God is not the one who is lying. The delusion or deluding influence is the Antichrist who is masquerading as God. You will have to read the whole chapter to understand what is happening and the reason why God allowed this deluding influence to go past the bounds that may have been set.

2 Thes 2:11-12 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. 12 And so all of them who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil will be condemned. NET

 

5wize

Well-known member
God is not the one who is lying. The delusion or deluding influence is the Antichrist who is masquerading as God. You will have to read the whole chapter to understand what is happening and the reason why God allowed this deluding influence to go past the bounds that may have been set.

2 Thes 2:11-12 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false. 12 And so all of them who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil will be condemned. NET

But if God had the power to not do that, not send a deluding influence, why wouldn't He for the sake of his own goodness being promoted in His creation?
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
But if God had the power to not do that, not send a deluding influence, why wouldn't He for the sake of his own goodness being promoted in His creation?
The chapter gives the reason (s).

Let me ask you a question. Hypothetically, do you have a problem with a good God who knows everything, even the thoughts that we think and the motives behind all of our actions, being the ultimate judge of every human who has ever lived?
 

docphin5

Well-known member
But if God had the power to not do that, not send a deluding influence, why wouldn't He for the sake of his own goodness being promoted in His creation?
It is interesting that in the real world someone who makes excuses for another’s destructive behavior can be clinically diagnosed as an enabler. Just thought I would provide a point of information to have in view as people respond to you.

What is the correct definition of an enabler?

: one that enables another to achieve an end. especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (such as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior.
 

5wize

Well-known member
The chapter gives the reason (s).

Let me ask you a question. Hypothetically, do you have a problem with a good God who knows everything, even the thoughts that we think and the motives behind all of our actions, being the ultimate judge of every human who has ever lived?
Hypothetically, if we are assuming an ALL good god that has revealed himself to me beyond faith alone, then I would say no, I do not have a problem with that other than his Orwellian nature - the North Korean dictatorship-like presence over all we do and think and can ever be. He can even punish us for thought crimes - and it would seem put thought crimes in our head to frame us. Kinda scary knowing the nature he tagged us with, the nature of his creation.... a creation that isn't all good.

So, measured against our experienced reality, which is the only thing by which we mere mortals can measure a creator god's intent, I would have to say yes, I do have a problem with that god judging anything but himself as he is not revealed through his creation as being a perfect creator, and thus couldn't possibly be a perfect judge over everything. Observationally, he seems very flawed.

I know the Christian response to that is that we cannot know god's mind or all his reasons why things are as they are, which makes your question kind of a conundrum for the Christian. You can't reserve a slice of god to complete unknowable mystery and still claim to know the totality of his nature. With an unknowable, you cannot know, or claim with credibility, that god is all good just from a scriptural claim of men, and especially by observing a flawed creation regardless of what Romans claims.
 
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