the beginning of knowledge.

SteveB

Well-known member
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.
This doesn't really tell atheists anything. It assumes God, it doesn't give good reason to think God exists, it gives no good reason to think anything about it as true.
 

Nouveau

Active member
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.
Fear of the imaginary is never a good epistemic starting point. The beginning of knowledge is to understand one's own weaknesses as a fallible being, i.e. recognizing common human fallacies in thinking, and how to avoid them. The beginning of knowledge is the beginning of doubt and critical thought.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
This doesn't really tell atheists anything.
Actually it tells atheists that if you want to gain genuine knowledge, you have to learn to fear God.
It further tells atheists that only fools despise wisdom and instruction.

It assumes God,
Tah-dah! Congratulations WiF! You gained knowledge.
Now.... what will you do with that knowledge? I.e., will you seek wisdom, and instruction?

it doesn't give good reason to think God exists, it gives no good reason to think anything about it as true.
pity.... and I thought there was hope for you yet.
It's "just sayin'"
What you do with it is entirely on you.

You see, in Psalm 25:14, it says that God shares his secrets, and his friendship with those who fear him.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him,

and he makes known to them his covenant.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Fear of the imaginary is never a good epistemic starting point.
then you should stop being afraid of the imaginary, and start learning the truth.


The beginning of knowledge is to understand one's own weaknesses as a fallible being,
and yet here your are, boasting that you know better. Astounding.
If you're boasting of your ignorance, why would you claim to be fallible?

i.e. recognizing common human fallacies in thinking, and how to avoid them. The beginning of knowledge is the beginning of doubt and critical thought.

It's a pity you think you know so much.

God's offering his friendship to those who fear him.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him,

and he makes known to them his covenant.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
Actually it tells atheists that if you want to gain genuine knowledge, you have to learn to fear God.
It further tells atheists that only fools despise wisdom and instruction.
No, it doesn't. The point you are missing is it says something, but it doesn't say why what it says is true. Without that it's an empty statement.
Tah-dah! Congratulations WiF! You gained knowledge.
Now.... what will you do with that knowledge? I.e., will you seek wisdom, and instruction?
Huh? That God is assumed is not a good thing. It's a poor path to truth.
pity.... and I thought there was hope for you yet.
It's "just sayin'"
What you do with it is entirely on you.
This doesn't address the point that the passage itself gives no good reason to think it says anything true. It just dodges it, as usual.

You see, in Psalm 25:14, it says that God shares his secrets, and his friendship with those who fear him.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him,

and he makes known to them his covenant.
So what?
 

Nouveau

Active member
then you should stop being afraid of the imaginary, and start learning the truth.
Sure, right after you stop beating your wife.

and yet here your are, boasting that you know better. Astounding.
If you're boasting of your ignorance, why would you claim to be fallible?
I haven't made either of those boasts, still less both of them. Your two strawmen here aren't even consistent with each other.

It's a pity you think you know so much.

God's offering his friendship to those who fear him.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him,

and he makes known to them his covenant.
It's a pity you think you can read minds, as your clairvoyance has failed you again. As has your preaching.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
No, it doesn't. The point you are missing is it says something, but it doesn't say why what it says is true. Without that it's an empty statement.
It's a pity that you don't actually think.
How you view what God said is immaterial unless you repent and believe Jesus.

It doesn't require your permission to be. It simply is.


Huh? That God is assumed is not a good thing. It's a poor path to truth.
You never actually read the bible did you?

It starts with the statement,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....

It doesn't provide a 10 point argument defending the existence of God and why you should believe him.

It simply states that he created the cosmos and the human race.

What you do with this is entirely on you.

If you believe him, you will gain eternal life. If you don't, you will retain your eternal death.

This doesn't address the point that the passage itself gives no good reason to think it says anything true. It just dodges it, as usual.
Not according to you.

But it's stated quite simply.

The fear of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and understanding.

In this is contained life and death.

For the people who seek to experience the fulness of knowledge, wisdom and understanding, the fear God who is the author of life.

For those who believe that they know better and refuse to take the time to learn to gain wisdom and understanding, they make themselves to be foolish people who will perish.


It's the difference between life and death.
 

Tiburon

Member
It's a pity that you don't actually think.
How you view what God said is immaterial unless you repent and believe Jesus.

It doesn't require your permission to be. It simply is.



You never actually read the bible did you?

It starts with the statement,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....

It doesn't provide a 10 point argument defending the existence of God and why you should believe him.

It simply states that he created the cosmos and the human race.

What you do with this is entirely on you.

If you believe him, you will gain eternal life. If you don't, you will retain your eternal death.


Not according to you.

But it's stated quite simply.

The fear of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and understanding.

In this is contained life and death.

For the people who seek to experience the fulness of knowledge, wisdom and understanding, the fear God who is the author of life.

For those who believe that they know better and refuse to take the time to learn to gain wisdom and understanding, they make themselves to be foolish people who will perish.



It's the difference between life and death.
It's the difference between believing and not believing. That is all.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
It's a pity that you don't actually think.
Ironic, coming from you.
How you view what God said is immaterial unless you repent and believe Jesus.

It doesn't require your permission to be. It simply is.
This doesn't address the point. What you posted just says stuff. So what? It doesn't say why it's the word of God, it doesn't say why what it say would be true if it was the word of God.
You never actually read the bible did you?

It starts with the statement,

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....

It doesn't provide a 10 point argument defending the existence of God and why you should believe him.

It simply states that he created the cosmos and the human race.

What you do with this is entirely on you.
So why should anyone believe it?
If you believe him, you will gain eternal life. If you don't, you will retain your eternal death.
Nice if true. So far i've seen no reason to think it true. Whenever you are asked questions that would show if it was, you make an excuse. You don't have knowledge.
Not according to you.

But it's stated quite simply.

The fear of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and understanding.

In this is contained life and death.

For the people who seek to experience the fulness of knowledge, wisdom and understanding, the fear God who is the author of life.

For those who believe that they know better and refuse to take the time to learn to gain wisdom and understanding, they make themselves to be foolish people who will perish.
How do they know better?
 

Tercon

Member
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.
If God is reality and the truth can only be known to exist in reality and belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known, then the truth of God's reality can ONLY begin in a believing mind.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
It's the difference between believing and not believing. That is all.
Where believing leads to eternal life and not believing leads you on the path you're already on, everlasting shame and contempt, as well as death.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Ironic, coming from you.
Why because you don't actually like the way I think?
I've told you hundreds of times before that I'm learning to understand how God thinks, which is infinitely greater than the way humans think.
And as such, the only issue here is that no matter how hard you try to make it out that I'm not thinking, you're still stuck with an inferior quality of thought, and awareness.


This doesn't address the point. What you posted just says stuff. So what? It doesn't say why it's the word of God, it doesn't say why what it say would be true if it was the word of God.
Well, if you don't want to actually learn, know, understand and become aware of God's reality then what do you care?
What I say carries eternal significance. You can indeed complain about it. But it's not going to change anything. Your complaint just excludes you from experiencing the truth.




So why should anyone believe it?
People should believe the gospel of Jesus because it's true.

Nice if true. So far i've seen no reason to think it true.
That's a you thing.
Your unbelief simply excludes you from learning the truth, and leaves you in the place of ignorance. Sadly, it's an increasingly dangerous place, because the level of knowledge of the truth you're gaining keeps increasing on a daily basis.

You already have enough knowledge to be classifiable as an undergrad theologian.


Whenever you are asked questions that would show if it was, you make an excuse. You don't have knowledge.
You've been given everything that you need to go to God yourself and actually engage him yourself.
Don't blame others for your own choosing.


How do they know better?
It's simply a matter of taking the information already provided and dealing directly with God himself.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
Why because you don't actually like the way I think?
I've told you hundreds of times before that I'm learning to understand how God thinks, which is infinitely greater than the way humans think.
And as such, the only issue here is that no matter how hard you try to make it out that I'm not thinking, you're still stuck with an inferior quality of thought, and awareness.
That makes no sense.
Well, if you don't want to actually learn, know, understand and become aware of God's reality then what do you care?
What I say carries eternal significance. You can indeed complain about it. But it's not going to change anything. Your complaint just excludes you from experiencing the truth.
Just saying stuff doesn't make it true, you just said stuff with no reason to think it's true.
People should believe the gospel of Jesus because it's true.
You have not shown this.
That's a you thing.
Your unbelief simply excludes you from learning the truth, and leaves you in the place of ignorance. Sadly, it's an increasingly dangerous place, because the level of knowledge of the truth you're gaining keeps increasing on a daily basis.

You already have enough knowledge to be classifiable as an undergrad theologian.

No, the lack of supporting evidence for theism keeps me an atheist.
ou've been given everything that you need to go to God yourself and actually engage him yourself.
Don't blame others for your own choosing.
You know why this is nonsense.
It's simply a matter of taking the information already provided and dealing directly with God himself.
What information?
 
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.
What sort of knowledge are you referring to? Why must fear be apart of it.
 

Ficciones

Member
I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.


The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.

Oho! This is like knowledge daughter learn about men at University of Womanhood in Almaty, Kazakhstan. Wawaweewa!
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
That makes no sense.
Ok. what part of it made no sense?

Just saying stuff doesn't make it true, you just said stuff with no reason to think it's true.
Ironic. You seem to think all the stuff you say is true.
So, why should I believe anything you say is true?


You have not shown this.
Actually it's incumbent on you to learn for yourself what is, and is not true.
that is the command of Paul to the Thessalonians--- Test all things. Cling to that which is good, and abhor that which is evil.

No, the lack of supporting evidence for theism keeps me an atheist.
You're the one who is supposed to do what Jesus said so you can get the evidence he gives.
Otherwise, I have to give you dozens of books to read, so you can work through the issues you have, for yourself, instead of arguing with strangers on a forum who's main idea you reject because you're not willing to do what's necessary to get the evidence you claim to seek.

You know why this is nonsense.
I'm guessing because I didn't put the Y at the beginning of my statement.


What information?
Are you really going to tell me that you have forgotten everything you've been given by myself, and others here who've told you about Jesus? that's pretty sad. 11 years of arguing on a forum whose main ideas you despise, and have argued vociferously against, and you've forgotten it all.....
wow.... I think this is a perfect example of what Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Apparently you have lots and lots of birds stealing from you.


Thankfully, Jesus provides the solution for it. So.... you tell me....

Do you like being stolen from, or would you prefer to actually understand what you've been given?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
What sort of knowledge are you referring to? Why must fear be apart of it.
I think it has to do with recognizing the importance of who it is who is giving you the knowledge to begin with.
The passage says--- The Fear of God is the beginning of knowledge....
It's the very beginning..... the point at which knowledge starts is at the fear/reverence of God.
I have an idea.... here's the source of the word, in the ancient usage--- sources are always a good source to understand the concepts.


Jesus used this in one of his sermons, dealing with when people were afraid that they would be killed for following him.

He told them in response----

27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.​
It's the idea of taking into account the power of someone who can do you greater harm, than those whom you're really afraid of.

Eg., In light of the violence taking place in the US nowadays, who will you be afraid of---
The rioters who are violent destroying property, or the police, who can lock you up, and destroy your life?
Of whom are you going to have a legitimate fear?
 

Whatsisface

Active member
Ok. what part of it made no sense?
That you learn to understand God who's thinking is far greater than us humans.
Ironic. You seem to think all the stuff you say is true.
So, why should I believe anything you say is true?
I think the things I say that can be backed up can be reasonably considered true. You don't seem to understand this, as evidenced by the fact you didn't back up your statement.
Actually it's incumbent on you to learn for yourself what is, and is not true.
that is the command of Paul to the Thessalonians--- Test all things. Cling to that which is good, and abhor that which is evil.
Yes, which is why I ask you questions that get to the heart of the matter, but you never answer. I'm not going down the same route as you if it doesn't give answers.
You're the one who is supposed to do what Jesus said so you can get the evidence he gives.
Otherwise, I have to give you dozens of books to read, so you can work through the issues you have, for yourself, instead of arguing with strangers on a forum who's main idea you reject because you're not willing to do what's necessary to get the evidence you claim to seek.
All you have to do is detail your experience, that you don't only castes doubt on your claims.
Are you really going to tell me that you have forgotten everything you've been given by myself, and others here who've told you about Jesus? that's pretty sad. 11 years of arguing on a forum whose main ideas you despise, and have argued vociferously against, and you've forgotten it all.....
wow.... I think this is a perfect example of what Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Apparently you have lots and lots of birds stealing from you.


Thankfully, Jesus provides the solution for it. So.... you tell me....

Do you like being stolen from, or would you prefer to actually understand what you've been given?
You don't understand, how do you know this is information? How do you know Jesus spoke these very words?
 
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