the beginning of knowledge.

SteveB

Well-known member
Oh - I didn't hear the bagpipes the first time.
So "there are infinitely prime numbers", which can be known without fearing your god, does not count as genuine knowledge?
It's a matter of gaining wisdom to know God.
What you view as superior knowledge is not even scratching the surface of what God knows, and he's stated he would make all knowledge known to us because we believe him.

So, all the physics, chemistry, engineering, biology, psychology, mathematics, they're like young children's play toys for God.

So... yeah.


I know that smoking will more than likely decrease both my quality and expectancy of life, and I know it without fearing your god - is this not "beneficial knowledge"?
Knowledge of and interaction with him as Father, and Jesus as my brother makes those things a gimme, instead of a discussion.

You pick things that you believe matter.

God has invited us to know far greater things, of far greater importance.

But, hey. You go right ahead and keep playing with your balls and jacks.

You obviously believe they're of far greater importance.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
So, all the physics, chemistry, engineering, biology, psychology, mathematics, they're like young children's play toys for God.
None of these fields count as "genuine knowledge", then?
Knowledge of and interaction with him as Father, and Jesus as my brother makes those things a gimme, instead of a discussion.
I didn't ask about your knowing them; I asked about my knowing them.
How can I know them without fearing your god?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
No, it claims that if you want to gain genuine knowledge, you have to learn to fear God. It provides no supporting evidence for this claim whatsoever.
The evidence is in the doing.
The passage states if you want genuine knowledge, you have to fear God.

You have to actually do it to receive the evidence.

It's no different from-- if you want to be authorized to drive, you have to get a driver's license. You actually have to go get the license, and you'll obtain the evidence that you are then lawfully authorized to drive.


The fact that a great many people who do not fear God yet have genuine knowledge show that this claim is not only unsupported, it is false.
Actually, you have just proven that you have no idea what genuine knowledge is and consists of.

You indeed have plenty of ideas for what you think knowledge is.

As I stated to another poster, what you think is knowledge is like a child with a set of rubber balls, and jacks, compared to the cosmos.



No, it claims that only fools despise wisdom and instruction. It provides no supporting evidence for this claim whatsoever.
You're providing the evidence by your posts, and expressly stated opinions, showing that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
Plenty of bias, plenty of preconceptions, but limited to nill understanding.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I'll ask again: is "smoking kills" "genuine" knowledge ?
Nope.
That's more like the ball and jacks I mentioned earlier this morning.

We read in 1 Corinthians 2

1Co 2:6-16 WEB 6 We speak wisdom, however, among those who are full grown, yet a wisdom not of this world nor of the rulers of this world who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom that has been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this world has known. For had they known it, they wouldn’t have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, “Things which an eye didn’t see, and an ear didn’t hear, which didn’t enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s Spirit. 12 But we received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God. 13 We also speak these things, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. 14 Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual discerns all things, and he himself is judged by no one. 16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him?” But we have Christ’s mind.

It's then stated in chapter 13

1Co 13:12 WEB For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known.

So, the sum total of human knowledge today doesn't even put a scratch in what God said he will give us when we believe him.

Psa 147:11 WEB Yahweh takes pleasure in those who fear him, in those who hope in his loving kindness.

Psa 111:10 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. All those who do his work have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

Psa 25:14 BBE The secret of the Lord is with those in whose hearts is the fear of him; he will make his agreement clear to them.

It just keeps getting better and better from this point forward for those who believe him.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
The evidence is in the doing.
The passage states if you want genuine knowledge, you have to fear God.

You have to actually do it to receive the evidence.
"I want evidence that fearing god is the beginning of knowledge."
"Fear him, and then you'll get the evidence".

Every once in a while I read something so utterly, headbangingly stupid that I have to stand up and walk around for a bit.
This was not one of those times, but it was close.
It's no different from-- if you want to be authorized to drive, you have to get a driver's license. You actually have to go get the license, and you'll obtain the evidence that you are then lawfully authorized to drive.
We told you we want to learn how to drive, and you told us to drive to an instructor's house to get some lessons.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Nope.
That's more like the ball and jacks I mentioned earlier this morning.

We read in 1 Corinthians 2

1Co 2:6-16 WEB 6 We speak wisdom, however, among those who are full grown, yet a wisdom not of this world nor of the rulers of this world who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom that has been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this world has known. For had they known it, they wouldn’t have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, “Things which an eye didn’t see, and an ear didn’t hear, which didn’t enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s Spirit. 12 But we received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God. 13 We also speak these things, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. 14 Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual discerns all things, and he himself is judged by no one. 16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him?” But we have Christ’s mind.

It's then stated in chapter 13

1Co 13:12 WEB For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known.

So, the sum total of human knowledge today doesn't even put a scratch in what God said he will give us when we believe him.

Psa 147:11 WEB Yahweh takes pleasure in those who fear him, in those who hope in his loving kindness.

Psa 111:10 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. All those who do his work have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

Psa 25:14 BBE The secret of the Lord is with those in whose hearts is the fear of him; he will make his agreement clear to them.

It just keeps getting better and better from this point forward for those who believe him.
So your position might be better characterized as

"fear of god is the beginning of knowing things about god"

?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
None of these fields count as "genuine knowledge", then?
I happen to think they were. I attended college to learn them.

I've learned through the years that as impressive and as important as such things are in this life, they matter nothing in light of eternity.

Ever watch the 1985 movie, Brewster's Millions?
The plot was about a guy who inherited 30 million dollars. The catch was that he had to spend every single penny of it to inherit 300 million dollars.

I don't know about you, but 30 million would be great! I'd absolutely be content with that amount of money.

Jesus said-- what would it benefit/profit a man if he gained the whole world and loses his soul?

Such professional knowledge in this life is the cat's meow! I enjoy the knowledge of this world a lot.

But in contrast to eternity.... it's nothing.
A pauper in this world who believes in Jesus will be wealthier than the wealthiest people on earth, in eternity.

So, you choose!
Considering that this life is at best 120 years, and eternity will never end, and a Planck's unit of time (10^-43 seconds) in comparison to eternity is 10^10000000^10000000^10000000^1000000^100000000 million eons,
Paradise forever or misery for the same forever?



I didn't ask about your knowing them; I asked about my knowing them.
If you gained every single grain of gold, platinum, and finer, more costly metals, jewelry, etc...... in this life, it won't help you one iota for your eternal state before YHVH.


How can I know them without fearing your god?

Jesus said,

what would it benefit/profit a man if he gained the whole world and loses his soul?


Your bodily death is racing at you at breakneck speed. It'll hit you like a ton of bricks, and nothing you do can stop it from happening.

Riches benefit you nothing on the day of death. But righteousness delivers from death.

Only one way to escape the consequences of your sin.
Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.
If you do so, the moment you die, you'll be ushered into the presence of God and spend your eternity in a paradise designed with you in mind.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
So, you choose!
Considering that this life is at best 120 years, and eternity will never end, and a Planck's unit of time (10^-43 seconds) in comparison to eternity is 10^10000000^10000000^10000000^1000000^100000000 million eons,
Paradise forever or misery for the same forever?
You're asking me to choose between a finite life I am 100% sure I've got, and an eternity whose probability I can't even calculate.
... finite life wins until the eternity looks at least possible, never mind likely.
Your bodily death is racing at you at breakneck speed. It'll hit you like a ton of bricks, and nothing you do can stop it from happening.
100% agreed.
Riches benefit you nothing on the day of death.
100% agreed.
But righteousness delivers from death.
If only we had a righteous corpse whose deliverance we could confirm... ah, well.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
"I want evidence that fearing god is the beginning of knowledge."
"Fear him, and then you'll get the evidence".

Every once in a while I read something so utterly, headbangingly stupid that I have to stand up and walk around for a bit.
Well, the stupidity is yours, and yours alone.



This was not one of those times, but it was close.
It's been explicitly stated that God has explicitly chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to save those who believe him.
It's offensive to many because it's too simple and asinine to others because they think it should be an intellectual issue.
So, you have to decide what matters more to you.

Everyone who I've ever met who has come to him engaged him on his terms.



We told you we want to learn how to drive, and you told us to drive to an instructor's house to get some lessons.
Actually, you simply needed to take an uber/lyft/taxi/bus/walk to get there.
You're the one who is making it more difficult than it needs to be.

1Co 1:21 WEB For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.


To save those who believe him.

Paul referring to Deuteronomy 30 states


Rom 10:5-13 WEB 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness of the law, “The one who does them will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness which is of faith says this, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down); 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.)” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;” that is, the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart, one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him. 13 For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

What does it say?
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
The evidence is in the doing.
The passage states if you want genuine knowledge, you have to fear God.

You have to actually do it to receive the evidence.

It's no different from-- if you want to be authorized to drive, you have to get a driver's license. You actually have to go get the license, and you'll obtain the evidence that you are then lawfully authorized to drive.

Actually, you have just proven that you have no idea what genuine knowledge is and consists of.

You indeed have plenty of ideas for what you think knowledge is.

As I stated to another poster, what you think is knowledge is like a child with a set of rubber balls, and jacks, compared to the cosmos.

You're providing the evidence by your posts, and expressly stated opinions, showing that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
Plenty of bias, plenty of preconceptions, but limited to nill understanding.
As usual, you offer a lot of claims and zero evidence. You show nothing at all to indicate that you have any sort of knowledge that we do not and disparage actual knowledge by claiming it's not 'genuine'. You finish by telling me I don't know what I'm talking about while you - as always - have provided zero evidence of that claim.

Meanwhile, I possess a huge amount of genuine knowledge obtained without fear of your god.
 
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