the beginning of knowledge.

[Eightcrackers]

It's been explicitly stated that God has explicitly chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to save those who believe him.

Then if his goal is to reach less than one third of all people - and that number is dropping - he's doing a bang-up job.

 

[Mr Laurier]

I'd say that you are seriously overdue.

For?

 

[Mr Laurier]

Well, you do. That's quite clear.

I do what? If you say that I lie, you will need to provide evidence for your claim

 

[SteveB]

So your position might be better characterized as

"fear of god is the beginning of knowing things about god"

?

There are many different kinds of knowledge.


Just because you know how to write words doesn't mean that you are willing to experience.

This is the problem with atheism.

They claim to have been christians at some point in the past, and yet say they never actually met Jesus.
Which means that you have a few problems.

1- you weren't actually paying attention to whatever it was that you read.
Because if you were actually paying attention, you would have read/seen

As a follower of Jesus, you are his fiance. I.e., the church is the bride of Jesus.

As a follower of Jesus you are the sibling of Jesus. He said that whosoever does the will of God is his brother, sister and mother.

As a follower of Jesus you are an adopted child of God.


So, if you actually never met him, then you were never actually a follower of Jesus.

In cultural terms, you were a CINO.
Christian in name only.

2- you missed the spiritual rebirth. It's a simple question really.
Jesus said that unless we are born again we cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
It's kind of like electricity flowing through the circuit.
Without electricity, no matter how much you play with the switches, you'll never be able to get light.

3- righteousness or a right relationship with God...
Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees, we cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
It's not enough to merely be a moral person. We have to have an inner morality of the heart.
Only God has the power to impart this.

4- become a child.
Jesus said that unless we are like little children, we cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
It's not about being gullible, or childish and a spoiled brat.
It's a change of heart, and learning a new way of thinking.

God actually describes it in the old testament book of Ezekiel. Chapter 36, verses 25-27.

God pours clean water on us.
God cleanses us from our sin and false beliefs and assumptions.
God removes the old stony heart of flesh and gives us a new heart of flesh and places a new spirit in us.
He then places his own Holy Spirit in us to live in agreement with his statutes and ordinances.

It's actually quite profound.

Not merely adhering to a collection of interesting philosophical ideas. But engaging God as our Father and Jesus as our brother.

So, whatever you want to think christianity is about, it's far more profound than you can fathom.

 

[Eightcrackers]

They claim to have been christians at some point in the past, and yet say they never actually met Jesus.

This is because they, like I, do not consider Christianity to be a relationship with Jesus, but a belief of a relationship with Jesus.

As far as we're concerned, the only people who could have possibly met Jesus lived in Palestine between 4 BCE and 30-33 CE (assuming those dates are accurate).

 

[SteveB]

You're asking me to choose between a finite life I am 100% sure I've got, and an eternity whose probability I can't even calculate.
... finite life wins until the eternity looks at least possible, never mind likely.

For someone who claims to be so intelligent, you sure have a poor reading comprehension.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with probabilities and everything to do with length, and quality of life.

Eternal life is guaranteed to the followers of Jesus.
And eternal death, misery, and agony are guaranteed to those who refuse to follow Jesus.

100% agreed.

100% agreed.

If only we had a righteous corpse whose deliverance we could confirm... ah, well.

Pity you don't comprehend the nature of your situation.

You're going to be wishing you would have.

 

[SteveB]

This is because they, like I, do not consider Christianity to be a relationship with Jesus, but a belief of a relationship with Jesus.

This is exactly your problem.
You believe things that are not true.
But, hey. You're the one who keeps saying that aslong as you don't believe, you'll be fine.

As far as we're concerned, the only people who could have possibly met Jesus lived in Palestine between 4 BCE and 30-33 CE (assuming those dates are accurate).

As far as you're concerned...

If ever there was a more perfect, and powerful example of the stupidity of atheists' thinking, you just provided it.

Pity you choose to believe lies, instead of taking the time to learn the truth.

Well. It is your eternity.

 

[Eightcrackers]

Eternal life is guaranteed to the followers of Jesus.

As I said, I see absolutely no good reason to think that even one Christian's life extends beyond their physical death.

Telling me this without offering evidence that satisfies me is utterly pointless.

And eternal death, misery, and agony are guaranteed to those who refuse to follow Jesus.

And this.

Pity you don't comprehend the nature of your situation.

Pity you don't comprehend that you have not proven it to be my situation.

 

[Eightcrackers]

This is exactly your problem.
You believe things that are not true.

And I could say the same about you.
Neither of us thinks the other's definition is accurate... so what?

But, hey. You're the one who keeps saying that aslong as you don't believe, you'll be fine.

Quote my saying this, because I distinctly remember telling you that if you attribute this straw-man one more time, you are too stupid, too dismissive, or too trollish to engage with further.

If ever there was a more perfect, and powerful example of the stupidity of atheists' thinking, you just provided it.

OK - I'll just call your thinking "stupid" from now on, and we can descend into childishness together.

Well. It is your eternity.

Convince me I will exist for eternity.
Stupid.

In fact, don't bother - I tell you a dozen times that I don't think my unbelief will protect me, and you go right on thinking - and asserting - that I do.

I am sufficiently convinced that you are a troll.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

And I could say the same about you.
Neither of us thinks the other's definition is accurate... so what?

Quote my saying this, because I distinctly remember telling you that if you attribute this straw-man one more time, you are too stupid, too dismissive, or too trollish to engage with further.

OK - I'll just call your thinking "stupid" from now on, and we can descend into childishness together.

Convince me I will exist for eternity.
Stupid.

In fact, don't bother - I tell you a dozen times that I don't think my unbelief will protect me, and you go right on thinking - and asserting - that I do.

I am sufficiently convinced that you are a troll.

Gee...I can't believe it. Here's an atheist telling SteveB that he (SteveB) isn't actually listening to the atheist - he's just inventing his own responses, making things up, and addressing those.

Not like every atheist in here hasn't been telling SteveB that for almost a decade - by his own admission. You'd think he'd learn.

 

[bigthinker]

I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

You are a fool because you despise wisdom and instruction. You prefer your own made up fantasy over wisdom.

The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

fear of God is the result of delusion, the beginning of ignorance, the product of belief.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.

Nope.

 

[bigthinker]

Gee...I can't believe it. Here's an atheist telling SteveB that he (SteveB) isn't actually listening to the atheist - he's just inventing his own responses, making things up, and addressing those.

Not like every atheist in here hasn't been telling SteveB that for almost a decade - by his own admission. You'd think he'd learn.

Well, fools despise wisdom.

 

[Tiburon]

I was reminded of this earlier, and thought it'd be a good thing to redux this.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge.

Not the middle, not the end, not somewhere in between the beginning, and the end....

It's the very beginning of knowledge.

"The fear/reverence of God is the BEGINNING of knowledge."

Fear and reverence are not the same thing.
Fear of God is just a means of control.