The Bible is clear that no apostacy occurred from Jesus' birth tell now

The Prophet

Member
Daniel 2:

44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people
; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”


Head of Gold is the Babylonian Empire

Breasts and arms of silver is the Medo-Persian Empire

Belly and thighs of brass is the Macedonian Empire

Legs of Iron is the Roman Empire

Feet of iron and clay is Rome broken into Ten Kingdoms




1. Alemanni - Germany.

2. Franks - France.

3. Burgundians - Switzerland.

4. Suevi - Portugal.

5. Vandals - Exterminated.

6. Visigoths - Spain.

7. Anglo-Saxons - England.

8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.

9. Lombards - Italy.

10. Heruli - Exterminated.


Notice in verse 44

God would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed during the Roman Empire and it would fill the whole earth.



The Apostle Paul wrote: "Unto Him (God) be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end Amen" (Eph. 3:21). Could that be true if there was a universal apostasy of the church for several centuries? Jesus also said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). Notice that it is Christ Himself (not mortal men) who builds His church or adds to it (Acts 2:47), and Christ has all power in heaven and in earth (Matt. 28:18; Rev. 19:6). LDS often claim that the true church must be built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets, as Eph 2:20 says. This is commented upon later in this chapter under the sub-title, "Apostles." But Paul wrote, "...other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (I Cor. 3:11). Since Jesus Christ is the Foundation of the church, He is also part of the church! Could that church "collapse" or become extinct when the omnipotent Christ is the Foundation of it? Is it possible for Christ to lose "the church of God which He hath purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:28; Eph. 5:25)? Christ is called the "Good Shepherd" in John 10:11. But, any shepherd who loses all his sheep is not a very good shepherd! Jude 1:1 From Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and yet a brother of James, to those who have been called, who are loved£ by God the Father and kept safe by Jesus Christ. May mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance! Dear friends, although I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write to you and urge you to continue your vigorous defense of the faith that was
passed down to the saints once and for all.


Mormons would like you think the Church Jesus set up went into apostacy 40 years after he went back to heaven. There is plenty of Christian writers in first century like Didache and Clement of Rome { A.D. 75 } and Hermas { A.D. 78-85 } teaching the Trinity. 2nd century Ignatius { A.D. 110-120 } Justin Martr { A.D. 114-168 } Irenaeus [ A.D. 115-190 } a disciple of Polycarp. Theophilus { A.D. 116-181 } said” In like manner also the three days which were luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and his Word, and his wisdom.” 3rd century we have Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, Novatian, etc. all these Church leaders taught the Trinity, way before the Creeds were developed



 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Interesting...of course, we also have what Jesus said in Matthew, that the gates of hell/hades would NOT prevail against His church. But according to the lying false prophet, Smith, it did--for nearly 1800 years, until he came along.

Whom should we believe--Jesus or Smith? :rolleyes:
 

The Prophet

Member
Interesting...of course, we also have what Jesus said in Matthew, that the gates of hell/hades would NOT prevail against His church. But according to the lying false prophet, Smith, it did--for nearly 1800 years, until he came along.

Whom should we believe--Jesus or Smith? :rolleyes:
This great apostacy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now. A short time after the death of the last of the Apostles, the Christian Church, what few of them remained, were persecuted from mountain to mountain, from den to den, from one cave of the earth to another, and from nation to nation until they were entirely exterminated and rooted out of the earth. Well, what was left? An apostate Christianity, a Christianity without revelators, without any voice of God, without any Prophets to unfold the future, without visions, without any communications from the heavens.

Author: Orson Pratt

Source: Journal Of Discourses

Volume: 18

Page: 44

The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant daughters; but as for the apostolical Church of Christ, she rests secure in the mansions of eternal happiness, where she will remain until the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell; (Orson Pratt’s Works, p. 189-190)


Orson Pratt taught in conference:

The Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt said, “Jesus…established his kingdom on earth…the kingdoms of this world made war against the kingdom of God, established eighteen centuries ago, and they prevailed against it, and the kingdom ceased to exist.” (Journal of Discourses. Vol. 13, page 125).


'THE GATES OF HELL HAVE PREVAILED...'

in his "Pamphlets," (p.112): "THE GATES OF HELL HAVE PREVAILED and will continue to prevail over the Catholic Mother of Harlots, and over ALL her Protestant Daughters;...the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes & bishops, together with all her harlot daughters SHALL BE HURLED DOWN TO HELL. ..."

"Apostle" Orson Pratt stated, with regard to the churches of Christendom (JoD, Vol. 16, pp. 175-6):
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
But they were "happy" guys

"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.
Yeah, what a way to make a wife feel special and loved...

Kimball was a weak-willed sycophant. He went from being horrified at plural marriage and not wanting to have any wife but Vilate, to giving up his one and only daughter to Smith, to marrying many other women.

The only source for this quote is from Ann Eliza Young in her book "Wife no. 19" . That makes it hard to verify. However, Kimball did write this in the J of D, Feb. 1, 1857:

“In the spirit world there is an increase of males and females, there are millions of them, and if I am faithful all the time, and continue right along with brother Brigham, we will go to brother Joseph and say, ‘Here we are brother Joseph; we are here ourselves are we not, with none of the property we possessed in our probationary state, not even the rings on our fingers?’ He will say to us, ‘Come along, my boys, we will give you a good suit of clothes.
Where are your wives?’ ‘They are back yonder; they would not follow us.’ ‘Never mind,’ says Joseph, ‘here are thousands, have all you want.’ Perhaps some do not believe that, but I am just simple enough to believe it” (Heber C. Kimball, February 1, 1857, Journal of Discourses 4:209).

"Take all you want." THOUSANDS of wives. Wow. Talk about an insensitive jerk! Sounds as if one wife is no different than another. Hardly what God had in mind when He created ONE wife for Adam and said that the two will be one flesh, clinging only to each other. So sacred is this God-given bond, that Paul even used marriage as a metaphor for Christ and the church. But Smith cheapened what God meant to be sacred and Kimball made a farce out of what God Himself created--marriage between one man and one woman. Heber trivialized something sacred.
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Interesting...of course, we also have what Jesus said in Matthew, that the gates of hell/hades would NOT prevail against His church. But according to the lying false prophet, Smith, it did--for nearly 1800 years, until he came along.

Whom should we believe--Jesus or Smith? :rolleyes:
What is there about Jesus' testimony which you believe contradicts Joseph Smith's testimony--concerning the restoration?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
What is there about Jesus' testimony which you believe contradicts Joseph Smith's testimony--concerning the restoration?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Smith was a sexual predator full stop. Notice the shame. You can't quote from his cobbled up "translation"
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Smith was a sexual predator full stop. Notice the shame. You can't quote from his cobbled up "translation"
I'm not sure how you are relating that to the posted scripture:

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So--if there was no apostasy--then why the need for a restitution of all things?
 

The Prophet

Member
What is there about Jesus' testimony which you believe contradicts Joseph Smith's testimony--concerning the restoration?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
The restitution of all things will happen when Jesus returns

:)
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
The restitution of all things will happen when Jesus returns

:)
I don't find that in the posted scripture:

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Again--if there was no apostasy--then why the need for a restitution? Why the need for a Reformation?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
The restitution of all things will happen when Jesus returns

:)
This is most certainly true. :) God always keeps a remnant for Himself. Jesus promised that the gates of hades/hell would NOT prevail against His church. Smith said it had--whom should we believe? A known liar and false prophet, J.Smith, OR Jesus Christ?

I know Whom I would rather believe. And WHY.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
This is most certainly true. :) God always keeps a remnant for Himself. Jesus promised that the gates of hades/hell would NOT prevail against His church.

Then why the need for a Reformation--where the theology of the day was totally changed--and another denomination formed?

Smith said it had--whom should we believe? A known liar and false prophet, J.Smith, OR Jesus Christ?

I know Whom I would rather believe. And WHY.

So--what do you consider to be a lie edit?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Then why the need for a Reformation--

That would be a good question for a different forum.
This is not the "Reformation" forum.

Notice how Mormons constantly run away from discussion of Mormonism (which they can't defend), and instead try to attack Christianity?

So--what do you consider to be a lie about the testimony of the scriptures?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

You refuse to acknowledge the difference between (1) what Scripture ACTUALLY teaches, and (2) your misinterpretation of it.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Then why the need for a Reformation--where the theology of the day was totally changed--and another denomination formed?



So--what do you consider to be a lie about the testimony of the scriptures?

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Hebrews 9:9-10 King James Version (KJV)​

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
That would be a good question for a different forum.
This is not the "Reformation" forum.

Notice how Mormons constantly run away from discussion of Mormonism (which they can't defend), and instead try to attack Christianity?



You refuse to acknowledge the difference between (1) what Scripture ACTUALLY teaches, and (2) your misinterpretation of it.
This is most certainly true. Besides, the Reformation didn't teach a brand new Gospel, but simply brought back the true Gospel of Jesus Christ of the Bible, that Rome had buried under mounds of man-made doctrines for centuries. As the LDS church has done, and still does!
 
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