The Bible tells is to have a paid clergy

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Fenuay

Well-known member
I was responding to Bonnie's statement that the higher up's were paid. So if goalposts were moved, talk to Bonnie.


So if 89 men get paid (because they travel 44 weeks out of the year) vs the 31,136 unpaid bishoprics, and 3,463 stake presidencies, over wards, branches, and stakes. (Triple those numbers if you count Elder's quorum and Relief Society Presidencies not to mention all those that serve in Primary and Youth programs). Would you say the clergy is generally paid or unpaid? At highest percentage you could say is 0.25% are paid.

Now consider the average pay of pastors in general: https://www.salary.com/tools/salary-calculator/pastor?type=base

Now also consider those who are paid were successful in their careers - doctors, lawyers, university presidents, etc. They could have simply retired and financially be just as well off. Something doesn't need to be fully uncompensated to be benevolent.
I didn't say they aren't benevolent for what they do. I'm saying that it's dishonest to say the clergy is unpaid. More accurate to say they receive some financial assistance with expenses incurred from Church work. This is just the same issue as how they say polygamy isn't practiced anymore when it is spiritually. I'm just seeking honesty.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Lol! I'd love to see documentation of "free tuition at BYU" - is that like family discount?

Here's an interesting article on living expenses: https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonl...t-living-allowance-of-lds-general-authorities

So, based on those numbers 89 people make $120K/yr. That's total "paid clergy" salaries of $10.68M. Pretty big right?
What percent of that is of the $7,000,000,000 they take in annually? 0.15% <- Sure sign of corruption, right there. :p

This is also keeping in mind, the "paid salary" is a job requiring 6 works days a week, traveling 44 weekends out of the year (source) - and you don't get a break until you die. I'd say $120K is fair compensation.
Never said that having a "fair compensation" was wrong for your leaders. But call a spade a spade! It is income!

Our pastors do many, many things in our churches, beyond just preaching on Sunday. I remember one ignorant Mormon on here, 2 boards ago, claim that our pastors only work for one hour a week, on Sunday. Which is foolish in the extreme!
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I don’t know where you’d find it documented. But it has been well known that children of the general authorities and mission presidents get free tuition at church schools.
Here is something about this, though I don't know if it discusses this tuition until I finish reading it:


Ah, it does have this, from 2012:

In December 2012, an official copy of the LDS Church’s “Mission President’s Handbook,” a publication not meant for the general public, was leaked on a blog site operated by a private individual. This official “how-to” manual explains the detailed rules for a mission president, whose job it is to work with local bishops while administering missionary efforts with stake presidents. In Appendix B under the title “Family Finances,” the manual discusses the “monthly reimbursement of living expenses” for the mission president’s family, including children under 26 who are not married and not employed full-time. It says that “living expenses include food, clothing, household supplies, family activities, dry cleaning, personal long-distance calls to family, and modest gifts (for example, Christmas, birthdays, or anniversary).”

Health and life insurance for the mission president and his family are fully covered, as are expenses not covered by personal health insurance, support for children serving full-time missions, one round-trip flight for each child to visit the parents on the field, school expenses for the children along with extracurricular activities, and “undergraduate tuition at an accredited college or university.”

The manual provides specific instruction for banking, as a “personal bank account at Church headquarters is established for you and your wife.” However, the mission president is told he “should not open a local bank account for personal funds received from the Church unless absolutely necessary, especially if the account would produce interest (and thus raise income-tax questions).” As far as housing, transportation, and insurance, items such as “rent, utilities, telephones, and Internet connection” are included. If the family needs a gardener, this may be provided, as well as “one part-time housekeeper-cook (no more than a total of 20 hours per week).” Unlike many Christian pastors’ families whose wives must work in order to make ends meet, the mission president’s wife is told that her “primary responsibility” is “caring for (her) family.” The manual adds, “She should not feel an obligation to participate in mission activities at the expense of family needs. If a babysitter is needed occasionally so that she can participate in an activity, the cost of the babysitter may be reimbursed.” It seems like an ideal situation. The wife stays home, raises the children, and even has a gardener and maid to help her in her home-making duties!

The mission president receives the use of one car and the expenses to run it; while his wife is not provided a car of her own, another mission vehicle is available for her and “dependent children who are mature and careful drivers.” I have a friend who served a California mission in the 1990s under mission president and now-Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland. When Holland’s child used the missionary car to travel to a Sacramento King’s basketball game and got into an accident, my friend said that he and his companion had to continue their mission without the car. Instead, they had to ride bicycles, traveling at times a great distance.

I don't know if there is a new manual out now. If so, I imagine it is very hush-hush and not many people are allowed to read it.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Never said that having a "fair compensation" was wrong for your leaders. But call a spade a spade! It is income!
I agree, let's call a spade a spade. First, who's considered clergy? Anyway you slice it, at most, less than one-quarter of one percent is paid.

Our pastors do many, many things in our churches, beyond just preaching on Sunday. I remember one ignorant Mormon on here, 2 boards ago, claim that our pastors only work for one hour a week, on Sunday. Which is foolish in the extreme!
Ummm....ok. I'm not making that argument. Is there a reason you're bringing it up? Bigotry, much?
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
I didn't say they aren't benevolent for what they do. I'm saying that it's dishonest to say the clergy is unpaid. More accurate to say they receive some financial assistance with expenses incurred from Church work. This is just the same issue as how they say polygamy isn't practiced anymore when it is spiritually. I'm just seeking honesty.
If you want honesty, then let's be honest. If I get my expenses paid for on a trip, I don't consider that getting paid for my work. That's the claim the church makes "unpaid clergy".
How else you describe "You can't make a career out of being a bishop and work up the ranks in the Church"? Hmmm? That is very much separate and distinct from Christianity.

Dead "polygamy" is making the assumption that Church beliefs are true. So, ok. If you believe temple sealings have efficacy to claim dead "polygamy" is a legitimate claim then maybe you ought to join our church. But in the eyes of the law, or any non-member that should care about polygamy, the church doesnt practice it. It's really all semantics and political posturing if you cant accept the context in which these terms are embedded.
 
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Fenuay

Well-known member
If you want honesty, then let's be honest. If I get my expenses paid for on a trip, I don't consider that getting paid for my work. That's the claim the church makes "unpaid clergy".
How else you describe "You can't make a career out of being a bishop and work up the ranks in the Church"? Hmmm? That is very much separate and distinct from Christianity.

Dead "polygamy" is making the assumption that Church beliefs are true. So, ok. If you believe temple sealings have efficacy to claim dead "polygamy" is a legitimate claim then maybe you ought to join our church. But in the eyes of the law, or any non-member that should care about polygamy, the church doesnt practice it. It's really all semantics and political posturing if you cant accept the context in which these terms are embedded.
Come on now. When you are talking to an interested investigator who is going to consider baptism tell them the truth. I was a member. I left. I really wanted it to be true that I could be sealed to my family forever. I wanted to be sealed and have an eternal family. I still think I will see my family in heaven and I will know who they are. I just don't think that Joseph Smith was a prophet. So there is no reason for me to be Mormon. There are some beliefs I still have that aren't mainstream Christian but I believe these things because I have experiences that have evidenced the truth to me. But I cannot accept that Joseph Smith is a true prophet.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Come on now. When you are talking to an interested investigator who is going to consider baptism tell them the truth.
Ummm...ok. I have no problem with that.
I was a member. I left. I really wanted it to be true that I could be sealed to my family forever. I wanted to be sealed and have an eternal family. I still think I will see my family in heaven and I will know who they are. I just don't think that Joseph Smith was a prophet. So there is no reason for me to be Mormon. There are some beliefs I still have that aren't mainstream Christian but I believe these things because I have experiences that have evidenced the truth to me. But I cannot accept that Joseph Smith is a true prophet.
I get that. I'm not judging you. I'm just defending what I believe.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
Ummm...ok. I have no problem with that.

I get that. I'm not judging you. I'm just defending what I believe.
I understand that. I know there have been some people here that were very rabid anti Mormon and I understand feeling defensive and if course you are here to explain and defend your spiritual beliefs which are very close to your heart. :)
 

The Prophet

Active member
1 Timothy 5:17-18

Pastors who do their work well should be paid well and should be highly appreciated, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching.

For the Scriptures say, “Never tie up the mouth of an ox when it is treading out the grain—let him eat as he goes along!” And in another place, “Those who work deserve their pay!”



1 Corinthians 9:

I’m telling you what God’s law says.

For in the law God gave to Moses he said that you must not put a muzzle on an ox to keep it from eating when it is treading out the wheat. Do you suppose God was thinking only about oxen when he said this?

Wasn’t he also thinking about us? Of course, he was. He said this to show us that Christian workers should be paid by those they help. Those who do the plowing and threshing should expect some share of the harvest.

Mormons condemn this and tell us they don't have paid clergy when they do :)

EDIT image violation. Only supermembers can post images
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1979/09/follow-the-brethren?

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is no paid ministry, no professional clergy, as is common in other churches. More significant even than this is that there is no laity, no lay membership as such; men are eligible to hold the priesthood and to carry on the ministry of the Church, and both men and women serve in many auxiliary capacities. This responsibility comes to men whether they are rich or poor, and with this responsibility also comes the authority. There are many who would deny, and others who would disregard it; nevertheless, the measure of that authority does not depend on whether men sustain that authority, but rather depends on whether God will recognize and honor that authority.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Well, that’s not true, either. They’re sitting on $100 billion surplus that could be used to do what Christ told us... help those in need. But it’s not. And people mistakenly think their tithing donations are helping others. Isn’t that a crime?

I think it much more than that.

On another board it was reported that an account manager who worked for the church resigned his position. He reportedly said, he couldn't do it anymore. The account was supposidly in the trillions.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I think it much more than that.

On another board it was reported that an account manager who worked for the church resigned his position. He reportedly said, he couldn't do it anymore. The account was supposidly in the trillions.

Would you post a cite for that claim?
 
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