The Bodily Resurrection & Ascension of Jesus

civic

Active member
Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Active member
Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Active member
1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓmathe physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

Thayers Greek Lexicon
 

Gary Mac

Member
Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!
Paul was a little off in his assessment. Jesus was clear that the kingdom of God, heaven, the place God resides does not come with observation but is within you. That is why I follow what Jesus said instead of Paul in what he said about him. The resurrection of Christ, Gods anointing, is within all who has received him from that grave people hold him in and waiting for him to rise someday from it.
 

Dant01

Member
.
That is why I follow what Jesus said


It is impossible to "follow what Jesus said" because he never wrote anything.

The fact of the matter is: when people quote Luke 17:21 they're not quoting Jesus,
they're quoting Luke, i.e. they're following what Luke says Jesus said; which-- when you
get right down to it --is really no different than people following what Paul says Jesus
said. It's a battle of the titans: Paul vs Luke.
_
 

Gary Mac

Member
.



It is impossible to "follow what Jesus said" because he never wrote anything.

The fact of the matter is: when people quote Luke 17:21 they're not quoting Jesus,
they're quoting Luke, i.e. they're following what Luke says Jesus said; which-- when you
get right down to it --is really no different than people following what Paul says Jesus
said. It's a battle of the titans: Paul vs Luke.
_
Let me rephrase sense you do not understand that Luke quoted Jesus, so did John, and some others. If you dont believe their quotes of him then I understand why you do not believe what Jesus said of himself and who you would be like him if you had the same from his Father who was his God and why it is impossible for you to follow what was said of him.

Everyone of these gave their own opinions about Jesus outside of quoting him. What is interesting in believing these quotes is that when one receives from God that what was written jesus said of himself then it becomes by identification with him that it all is true. By identification with with God as was quoted of Jesus identity with Him that any of Gods word is manifest and I can assure you that Gods word is not written on stone or a page of paper but is written in the hearts of those who has received His same identity.

You can quote what Jesus said all day and night but until you receive what the quotes are about in yourself you never will understand how and why it was quoted of him.
 

civic

Active member
.



It is impossible to "follow what Jesus said" because he never wrote anything.

The fact of the matter is: when people quote Luke 17:21 they're not quoting Jesus,
they're quoting Luke, i.e. they're following what Luke says Jesus said; which-- when you
get right down to it --is really no different than people following what Paul says Jesus
said. It's a battle of the titans: Paul vs Luke.
_
who would believe anything you say ?

you and Gary are 2 peas in a pod- self taught, reject scripture and are lone rangers with no accountability.

you won't even reveal your sources which speaks volumes- that is plagiarism.
 

Gary Mac

Member
who would believe anything you say ?

you and Gary are 2 peas in a pod- self taught, reject scripture and are lone rangers with no accountability.

you won't even reveal your sources which speaks volumes- that is plagiarism.
Oh Gosh no we have noting at all in common.

As far as accountability -- the only One I am accountable to is God, not your religious beliefs of Him. I am not accountable to the laws you have established to regulate your beliefs of a god at all. Nor was jesus accountable to you.

Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life that I am supposed to live and no one comes to the Father except we have the same form Him. He did not say that you are the way the truth and the life that you would have me live as you do.

As far as plagiarism I challenge you to copy and past that what Jesus wrote, personally I think you will be hard pressed to find any. Not that I agree with Dant, I do not, but so far I haven't read anything Jesus himself wrote. Perhaps he has but if so I havent read it.
 

civic

Active member
Oh Gosh no we have noting at all in common.

As far as accountability -- the only One I am accountable to is God, not your religious beliefs of Him. I am not accountable to the laws you have established to regulate your beliefs of a god at all. Nor was jesus accountable to you.

Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life that I am supposed to live and no one comes to the Father except we have the same form Him. He did not say that you are the way the truth and the life that you would have me live as you do.

As far as plagiarism I challenge you to copy and past that what Jesus wrote, personally I think you will be hard pressed to find any. Not that I agree with Dant, I do not, but so far I haven't read anything Jesus himself wrote. Perhaps he has but if so I havent read it.
There are no people in Scripture( mere men) who were not accountable to someone over them.

You have an UNBIBLICAL view which leads to all of your heretical beliefs gary.

Iron sharpens iron but you have no iron in your life, hence dull as a rusted nail instead of a razor sharp Samurai Sword.

hope this helps !!!
 

Gary Mac

Member
There are no people in Scripture( mere men) who were not accountable to someone over them.

You have an UNBIBLICAL view which leads to all of your heretical beliefs gary.

Iron sharpens iron but you have no iron in your life, hence dull as a rusted nail instead of a razor sharp Samurai Sword.

hope this helps !!!
Then tell me what man was Jesus accountable to who was over him?

And the reason what Jesus said is unbiblical for you is that you have written your own laws to govern him. All I can do is quote to you that what was quoted of Jesus what he said we should be like Him.

Iron sharpens iron and God had forged me into His same image just as He did Jesus and these others who did become like Him and in His same image. The reason that you accuse that what Jesus said is dull as a rusty nail is you have made him in your own image instead of you being in His. All I can do is quote that what Jesus said of himself that we should be ;like him and perfect even as my Father in heaven is perfect which seems to be dull as a door nail for you. His way is sharp as a two edged sword and evidently by your comments of what he says as dull -- His way cuts your way to the bone.
 

rod.ney

Member
Then tell me what man was Jesus accountable to who was over him?

And the reason what Jesus said is unbiblical for you is that you have written your own laws to govern him. All I can do is quote to you that what was quoted of Jesus what he said we should be like Him.

Iron sharpens iron and God had forged me into His same image just as He did Jesus and these others who did become like Him and in His same image. The reason that you accuse that what Jesus said is dull as a rusty nail is you have made him in your own image instead of you being in His. All I can do is quote that what Jesus said of himself that we should be ;like him and perfect even as my Father in heaven is perfect which seems to be dull as a door nail for you. His way is sharp as a two edged sword and evidently by your comments of what he says as dull -- His way cuts your way to the bone.
Jesus is NOT just a man, He is also God the Former WORD in John 1:1, with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit )! God the WORD became Flesh ( a human man called Jesus ) as per John 1:14! That is EXACTLY why God the Father will only call that Son " Oh God " and NOT born again sons ( as you think you are ) as per Heb.1:8! That's why all the non-fallen angels Worshiped Him ( God the Son - Jesus Christ ) as per Heb.1:6! Those angels will NEVER worship any born again sons of God! They will only worship GOD ( the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit )! The ONLY way that All things could have been CREATED through & by Him ( Jesus Christ as the Former Word in John 1:1 ) is the FACT that He was God the Word with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) as per GOD's say so in John 1:1! John 1:3 and Col.1:16 are in FACT GOD's say so that PROVES All things were CREATED through & by Him ( God the Son )! You can NEVER refute GOD's say so in those posted scriptures with your WRONG say so ( Man's Word ) Gary! Case closed Gary!
 

civic

Active member
Jesus is NOT just a man, He is also God the Former WORD in John 1:1, with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit )! God the WORD became Flesh ( a human man called Jesus ) as per John 1:14! That is EXACTLY why God the Father will only call that Son " Oh God " and NOT born again sons ( as you think you are ) as per Heb.1:8! That's why all the non-fallen angels Worshiped Him ( God the Son - Jesus Christ ) as per Heb.1:6! Those angels will NEVER worship any born again sons of God! They will only worship GOD ( the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit )! The ONLY way that All things could have been CREATED through & by Him ( Jesus Christ as the Former Word in John 1:1 ) is the FACT that He was God the Word with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) as per GOD's say so in John 1:1! John 1:3 and Col.1:16 are in FACT GOD's say so that PROVES All things were CREATED through & by Him ( God the Son )! You can NEVER refute GOD's say so in those posted scriptures with your WRONG say so ( Man's Word ) Gary! Case closed Gary!
Amen !
 

Gary Mac

Member
Jesus is NOT just a man, He is also God the Former WORD in John 1:1, with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit )! God the WORD became Flesh ( a human man called Jesus ) as per John 1:14! That is EXACTLY why God the Father will only call that Son " Oh God " and NOT born again sons ( as you think you are ) as per Heb.1:8! That's why all the non-fallen angels Worshiped Him ( God the Son - Jesus Christ ) as per Heb.1:6! Those angels will NEVER worship any born again sons of God! They will only worship GOD ( the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit )! The ONLY way that All things could have been CREATED through & by Him ( Jesus Christ as the Former Word in John 1:1 ) is the FACT that He was God the Word with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit ) as per GOD's say so in John 1:1! John 1:3 and Col.1:16 are in FACT GOD's say so that PROVES All things were CREATED through & by Him ( God the Son )! You can NEVER refute GOD's say so in those posted scriptures with your WRONG say so ( Man's Word ) Gary! Case closed Gary!
He was as much a son of man as you and I are. And he was son of God just as we all are who God is our Father. Seems you have a difficulty in being Gods son though.
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
He was as much a son of man as you and I are. And he was son of God just as we all are who God is our Father. Seems you have a difficulty in being Gods son though.
You haven't done the work that Jesus did. All you make are powerless claims.

Where is your Lazarus? If Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, certainly you can believe He can come forth from the grave Himself.... Now you? I don't believe you have the power. Just more circular claims with any substance.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You haven't done the work that Jesus did. All you make are powerless claims.
Maybe, but there is something to say about that:

John 14:12---King James Version
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
Maybe, but there is something to say about that:

John 14:12---King James Version
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Just baseless claims. You acn quote that verse all you want. You haven't actually done it yourself. Where are all those that testify of your mighty deeds?
 

civic

Active member
Maybe, but there is something to say about that:

John 14:12---King James Version
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
What are those works ?
 

Gary Mac

Member
You haven't done the work that Jesus did. All you make are powerless claims.

Where is your Lazarus? If Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, certainly you can believe He can come forth from the grave Himself.... Now you? I don't believe you have the power. Just more circular claims with any substance.
I am the Lazarus. So are all who God has raised us from that dead state of religion that you walk in to walk as He walks in His same light. That old man of flesh, carnality, died and the new man of Christ arose.

You dont believe that God has that power to resurrect you into His image is the real issue here.

As far as doing the work Jesus did -- everyone does who has from the Father that what Jesus had from Him. We walk as He walks in His same light same mind, same Spirit same signs follow us. It is that you just dont believe Jesus that you can is all. You act as if Jesus didnt make that statement of these signs follow us who do believe. You just dont believe is all. That is very obvious in this very post.

Only because these signs dont follow you does not mean it doesnt follow those who believe it only means they dont follow you is all.
 

rod.ney

Member
He was as much a son of man as you and I are. And he was son of God just as we all are who God is our Father. Seems you have a difficulty in being Gods son though.
Can't you CORRECTLY read the Posted scriptures in my responses?! They point Blank say ( GOD's say so ) that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Son that is God the former WORD in John 1:1! Born again sons are NOT God the former word, Gary! Have you accepted ( Not rejected ) Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior Gary? The answer to that question will tell us if you are a born again son of God or not!
 

Gary Mac

Member
Can't you CORRECTLY read the Posted scriptures in my responses?! They point Blank say ( GOD's say so ) that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Son that is God the former WORD in John 1:1! Born again sons are NOT God the former word, Gary! Have you accepted ( Not rejected ) Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior Gary? The answer to that question will tell us if you are a born again son of God or not!
Not only read them -- applied them -- they are who I am as Gods son.
You are not His son are you that you may relate to them as your own disposition? They are for someone else and not for you just as you stated.

And they do not say at all that Jesus was God you only falsely accuse him of being God from lack in having the same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus just as the ones who had him crucified falsely accused him. Jesus was clear that he was Gods son.

Tell me who do you think it was that Jesus prayed to and obeyed and called Him Father, and said he could do noting at all without his Father who sent him to show you the ways of the Father? You dont follow what Jesus said of himself at all. You have made your own god in your own image through the creed that you adhere to that of flesh is all. No man is a god and no flesh enters the kingdom of God unless you worship man as a god that is spawn from Greek mythology. Tey worshiped man as a god as well as you do.

You just haven't learned yet that God is a Spirit and man is the temple of. is all Who do you think it was who came to Jesus by Spirit and opened all of His heaven to that man in Matt 3;16. It is very clear that Jesus didn't know Him or His Spirit until God came and opened that revelation to him. This is what you are missing in yourself from God Himself. You can read it but you don't believe it.
 
Top