The Bodily Resurrection & Ascension of Jesus

No' a belief is only speculation with no substance to sustain that belief.
That does not answer the question. I specifically asked about believers.
Do you really think that your mind is material? IF so you are in complete carnality, for Spirit doesnt have flesh and bone.
I never made that claim. How did you arrive at that conclusion?
You dont know how God is do you, for it is very obvious that you never have met Him to know God is a Spirit of Love. Love is not material LOL, Love is the spirit of the beholder of.
Your response has nothing to do with my comment...Of course, they are. Then it is foolish to assume that a spiritual body is immaterial. Do you know what a body is?
Yes just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16, Moese, Adam changed and became like God, Gen 3;22, oses did, Abraham did, 120 did and so do all today who has received from God that what Jesus and these did from God. Jesus didnt know God either until God came to him and opened up wh He is, see Matt 3:16.
I posted the scripture sir. Your babbling does not correspond with the scripture vs that I posted.
Yes just as all of these were changed. Jesus referred to this change of mind, renewing, as born again.
read it slowly sir... it says "we shall be"... You are assuming that it says they were changed
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
We do indeed. for the kingdom of God oddest come with observation but is within you. see Jesus in Luke 17:20-21.
Again you are babbling in response to a verse of scripture.
 
If they need to be taught what they must believe how can they be believers?
Consider vs 13 and judge for yourself. At what age is a child weaned? Assuming you agree from 3 to 9 months. Please explain how a 3 to 9-month-old child can believe anything.
So vs 12 says they need milk, not solid food, therefore they are not believers yet.
They are believers but they stopped spiritual development, they satisfied with 'milk'. In 1Cor 13 Paul indicated stages of relationship a person may have with God. Faith initiated by God but Hope and Agape comes from the person 'coached' by Gid/Spirit.
" 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
'Milk' stage when a person is spiritually blind - see in dim mirrior or thru dark glass.
 
The goal is that they may be united in Christ Jesus, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
It is obvious that not many here knows what Christ is. Christ is Gods Spirit in man, man anointed of God to have His same mind, or Spirit the mind is called. Christ is the disposition of the man who is anointed of God and either one is anointed of God, Christ in you, or one is not and reject Gods anointing and worship a man as a god instead.
We do not want you to become lazy, double talking gnostics
instead, join those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Heb 6:12
It is better for me to join those who are of Christ and Gods anointed ones as Jesus was anointed of God by the same mind be in me from God Who was in Christ Jesus.

But I do agree that the ways of Christ, Gods anointing, is gnostic, for He demands that you have His Spirit as Jesus did if you are to be of Him.

But because some as yourself reject the Christ, then to you the ways od God is evil lies as you keep stating of Him in His ways for you.

You are just a little mixed up who Christ is is all, but there is a way out of your confusion, all you have to do is repent from your ways that Gods ways is evil, and recieve Him as Jesus and these others did we read of.

Only you can make that choice to be of Christ yourself.
 
They are believers but they stopped spiritual development, they satisfied with 'milk'. In 1Cor 13 Paul indicated stages of relationship a person may have with God. Faith initiated by God but Hope and Agape comes from the person 'coached' by Gid/Spirit.
" 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
'Milk' stage when a person is spiritually blind - see in dim mirrior or thru dark glass.
Jesus spoke on this, saying that his meat/food was to do the will of the one who Sent Him. Milk is for beginners, meat is for those who will die daily
 
They are believers but they stopped spiritual development, they satisfied with 'milk'. In 1Cor 13 Paul indicated stages of relationship a person may have with God. Faith initiated by God but Hope and Agape comes from the person 'coached' by Gid/Spirit.
You are not making any sense. Stopped spiritual development is akin to spiritual death. They are not growing.
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
" 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."
This passage has nothing to do with the milk stage since he became a man and gave up childish ways.
'Milk' stage when a person is spiritually blind - see in dim mirrior or thru dark glass.
Then you support my position that they are not spiritual if they are in need of milk.
 
You are not making any sense. Stopped spiritual development is akin to spiritual death. They are not growing.
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

This passage has nothing to do with the milk stage since he became a man and gave up childish ways.

Then you support my position that they are not spiritual if they are in need of milk.
Argue with Paul if you wish. They need my lk at the beginning but Paul is talking about eventually reaching maturity and says,
"14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
"Spiritual death" may be right term: "not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. "
 
Jesus spoke on this, saying that his meat/food was to do the will of the one who Sent Him. Milk is for beginners, meat is for those who will die daily
Paul said in Heb that some do not bother to mature preferring dwelling on basics.
"12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food.."
Christ Jesus is more harsh in Matt 13.
 
You are not making any sense. Stopped spiritual development is akin to spiritual death. They are not growing.
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

This passage has nothing to do with the milk stage since he became a man and gave up childish ways.

Then you support my position that they are not spiritual if they are in need of milk.
Paul gave an idea how to grow mature. I understastand
"ought to be" as one's choice to do that, or at least desire so.
 
Argue with Paul if you wish. They need my lk at the beginning but Paul is talking about eventually reaching maturity and says,
"14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
"Spiritual death" may be right term: "not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. "
Why should I argue with Paul? Paul did not say...
Baltic said:
They are believers but they stopped spiritual development, they satisfied with 'milk'.

You said it.
 
Why should I argue with Paul? Paul did not say...
Baltic said:
They are believers but they stopped spiritual development, they satisfied with 'milk'.

You said it.
Paul message was enough dwelling in elementary doctrines, that what was done for the last 2k years.
Novice comes to know Christ he/she meets denomination first. " freedom we have in Christ Jesus "?
"Ought to be teachers"? Today hardly 1 out of million....
 
Argue with Paul if you wish. They need my lk at the beginning but Paul is talking about eventually reaching maturity and says,
"14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
"Spiritual death" may be right term: "not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. "
But Paul never reached Gods maturity, he always was the sinner instead and told of his battle with sin.

Jesus commanded that we be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, which perfect is better described as mature, mature as your Father in heaven is mature. Paul never reached that place of perfection, he was clear that he did the things he didnt want to do but did them anyway.

I havent read where Jesus had that problem. SO in that it is better for me to follow the ways and teachings of Jesus than to follow one as Paul who is a sinner and even uses trickery, soothsaying, or witchcraft, to get people to follow him as a sinner instead o the one who was without sin.

The real issue here is in 1 John 3, that when you see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him, and that does not include sin. .
 
Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put onimmortality.”

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes

hope this helps !!!
 
1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fishanother. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the starsanother; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓmathe physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44(see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical bodyThayers Greek Lexicon

Hope this helps !!!
 
But Paul never reached Gods maturity, he always was the sinner instead and told of his battle with sin.

Jesus commanded that we be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, which perfect is better described as mature, mature as your Father in heaven is mature. Paul never reached that place of perfection, he was clear that he did the things he didnt want to do but did them anyway.

I havent read where Jesus had that problem. SO in that it is better for me to follow the ways and teachings of Jesus than to follow one as Paul who is a sinner and even uses trickery, soothsaying, or witchcraft, to get people to follow him as a sinner instead o the one who was without sin.

The real issue here is in 1 John 3, that when you see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him, and that does not include sin. .
He described fight with both meaning of sin, ignorance and and bad deeds.
"3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of Godb and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead".
 
1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fishanother. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the starsanother; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓmathe physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44(see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical bodyThayers Greek Lexicon

Hope this helps !!!
Of course soma is physical in its primary meaning,
Paul is giving us a clue about spiritual bodies, teaching that there are a variety of bodies, by giving several physical examples in the world. This is done to open our minds to the fact that the bodies in the spiritual realm are different too. Like John, Paul does not know exactly what those bodies will be like, but he knows they are different from our soma on earth. Spiritual soma.
 
Of course soma is physical in its primary meaning,
Paul is giving us a clue about spiritual bodies, teaching that there are a variety of bodies, by giving several physical examples in the world. This is done to open our minds to the fact that the bodies in the spiritual realm are different too. Like John, Paul does not know exactly what those bodies will be like, but he knows they are different from our soma on earth. Spiritual soma.
They regularly practiced entering spiritual body:
17“When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance ." Paul,
10"And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance". Peter
 
They regularly practiced entering spiritual body:
17“When I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance ." Paul,
10"And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance". Peter
Being in a trance is definately a connection to the spiritual world, but it has nothing to do with that new body.
 
Paul message was enough dwelling in elementary doctrines, that what was done for the last 2k years.
that is your opinion.
Novice comes to know Christ he/she meets denomination first. " freedom we have in Christ Jesus "?
That is another of your opinion.
"Ought to be teachers"? Today hardly 1 out of million....
Bro all who are not babes or past the time of being babes ought to be teachers not opinion makers.
 
that is your opinion.

That is another of your opinion.

Bro all who are not babes or past the time of being babes ought to be teachers not opinion makers.
that is your opinion.

That is another of your opinion.

Bro all who are not babes or past the time of being babes ought to be teachers not opinion makers.
It is Paul's opinion. Teachers or not, may be 2k years ago, but now it is personal spiritual growth., even if relying on limited means of translation - interpretation. Paul was master builder and hand picked his helpers based on spiritual understanding. Natural souls need to grow into spiritual, it may be slow process but 'speed' is not very important.
 
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