The Bodily Resurrection & Ascension of Jesus

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus literally raises Lazarus from the dead and you want to deflect from this because you haven't literally raised anyone from the dead.

You're nothing like Jesus even though you claim you're better.

Sure. I believe the Bible. I don't believe you. I believe what it says and you're not doing what you claim it says. Thus, you must be a fake.

The only one that believes you're not is you.

Sure. I remember your story. Glad you survived but you found value in accidents. I've been through them myself. Jesus was there with me. You weren't.
God literally raised me from that dead state of religion to live in the Father as jesus lived in the Father.

And the reason you cant relate to me be like Jesus is from lack in yourself having that from God that what Jesus had of Him. You cant know of a place that you never have been.

And if you did believe the bible you would be like Him as He demands of you as well. You would walk as He walks in His same light just as Jesus did. that is why you call Him as fake.

The only one who believe that I am as He is is God Himself for He demands that of us. Only because you cant relate to His perfections doesnt mean others cant, it only means that you cant is all.

As far as finding value in accidents there is no value in that at all. The value is that God came to me four years later and opened all of His heaven to me just as He did in jesus in Matt 3:16. This is the value that is worth more than gold, and it simply is Love.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Not only read them -- applied them -- they are who I am as Gods son.
You are not His son are you that you may relate to them as your own disposition? They are for someone else and not for you just as you stated.

And they do not say at all that Jesus was God you only falsely accuse him of being God from lack in having the same Spirit in you who was in Christ Jesus just as the ones who had him crucified falsely accused him. Jesus was clear that he was Gods son.

Tell me who do you think it was that Jesus prayed to and obeyed and called Him Father, and said he could do noting at all without his Father who sent him to show you the ways of the Father? You dont follow what Jesus said of himself at all. You have made your own god in your own image through the creed that you adhere to that of flesh is all. No man is a god and no flesh enters the kingdom of God unless you worship man as a god that is spawn from Greek mythology. Tey worshiped man as a god as well as you do.

You just haven't learned yet that God is a Spirit and man is the temple of. is all Who do you think it was who came to Jesus by Spirit and opened all of His heaven to that man in Matt 3;16. It is very clear that Jesus didn't know Him or His Spirit until God came and opened that revelation to him. This is what you are missing in yourself from God Himself. You can read it but you don't believe it.
You did not answer this question ( have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior ? ) that I asked you! It is either a yes or a no!
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You did not answer this question ( have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior ? ) that I asked you! It is either a yes or a no!
Absolutely, he lead me to the same Father who is Lord over us. The same One Jesus prayed to and obeyed.

Have you for it doesnt sound like you follow his way to be like him at all. And you dont even have to answer for the obvious speaks for itself.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Again. You deflect and change the conversation.

YOU haven't raised anyone from the dead like Jesus did. You haven't. I know that you claims one time to do just that but you're refusing to do that now.

You're not like Jesus in that YOU don't have the power that Jesus had/has. Just admit. It is nothing to be ashamed of.
If I said yes would you believe me?

Have you for Jesus said if you believe then you would. I believe how about you?
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
If I said yes would you believe me?

Have you for Jesus said if you believe then you would. I believe how about you?
No just like I would not believe you that you have called fire down from heaven, split the pacific ocean, walked on water, healed the lame, made one born blind who could see, turned water into wine, etc...........

Those Miraculous Signs and Wonders were one given to a few. Do you know why ?

Because God was giving new revelation and those Miracles confirmed that the one speaking was Gods messenger in a unique time giving that revelation.

The Law
The Prophets
Jesus
The Apostles.

There is no more revelation as we have Gods word. The next time God uses His messengers are the 2 witnesses in Revelation. Anyone today claiming miracles, signs and wonders are from SATAN as taught by Jesus and the Apostle's.


Matthew 24:23-27
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Revelation 13:13-14
He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

hope this helps !!!
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No just like I would not believe you that you have called fire down from heaven, split the pacific ocean, walked on water, healed the lame, made one born blind who could see, turned water into wine, etc...........

Those Miraculous Signs and Wonders were one given to a few. Do you know why ?

Because God was giving new revelation and those Miracles confirmed that the one speaking was Gods messenger in a unique time giving that revelation.

The Law
The Prophets
Jesus
The Apostles.

There is no more revelation as we have Gods word. The next time God uses His messengers are the 2 witnesses in Revelation. Anyone today claiming miracles, signs and wonders are from SATAN as taught by Jesus and the Apostle's.


Matthew 24:23-27
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Revelation 13:13-14
He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

hope this helps !!!
Those of the day are like you and didnt believe Jesus either. But the fact is these signs really do follow us who doe believe and have from God that what Jesus had of Him. You just dont believe him just as those of his day didnt either. It really is written whether you think so or not these signs shall follow. They just dont follow you because of your unbelief and mockery of Him. You only deny that it is written is all. Just as you deny everything Jesus said you would be and do if you did follow him in his ways. It isnt I who does not believe what is written and that fire that has you all upset because of your guilt not to believe him. You know very well that you do not believe these signs shall follow you.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You haven't done the work that Jesus did. All you make are powerless claims.

Where is your Lazarus? If Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, certainly you can believe He can come forth from the grave Himself.... Now you? I don't believe you have the power. Just more circular claims with any substance.
Everyone does the same as jesus did who has from our Father as Jesus had from Him. The reason most cant do the work of God that He demands of us is they do not know Him for how to.

Did Jesus come forth from the grave or are you still wafting for him to come out from it someday? Most are looking for him to come out of that grave when all the while he is at your door knocking this day. It is that people do not recognize Him for who he is. 1 John 3 and when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. Few who are and find His way.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus hasn't given me the power to raise the dead. Would I believe you if you claimed to have raised the dead? Yes. If you had evidence that you did, like an eye witness with people to support their story.
I agree it is God who gives the power all jesus could do is lead you to Him where it is the power of God Who works in man just as He was at work in jesus.

Would you really believe that I myself was raised from the dead by the prayers and beliefs of one lil ole lady who believed and prayed for me when my heart stopped and I was dead fifty five years ago?

I have seen people on their death bead who God brought them back and I have seen some on their death bead who expired. When it is your time to go not much anyone can do about it. Lazarus expired a long time ago no matter if Jesus raised him from the dead or not didnt he?

In reality you are missing the point of being raised from the dead. Spiritually it is discerned and a metaphor for what happens in us all who are dead to Gods Spirit and raised up to Him by His Spirit to come to life in Him. the cross has that same connotation, death to the flesh man and resurrection of the spirit man. not many actually apply it ... they wait for a man as god to emerge from a grave instead of applying it to themselves.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You weren't dead like Lazarus. You heart just stopped. Mine has stopped before too.



You weren't dead 4 days.



Ridiculous. I'm alive in Christ right now. I HAVE Eternal Life right now.

However, this isn't what we're talking about. Jesus literally raised a dead man from the grave. Not the granting of eternal life to a person dead in trespasses and sins.

You haven't done either of them. You can't grant Eternal Life. Jesus can. You can't literally raise a dead and stinking body from the grave like Jesus did. Jesus can.

Like I said. The Spirit of God is power. You haven't literally demonstrated any power. You're powerless.
If you were alive in Christ, which is to be anointed of God, these signs would follow you as well.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You keep claiming them but no one is seeing them. Jesus told those in his day to believe the miracles. If you're just like Jesus.... bring it.

I'll wait but not too long. You might not give up very soon. You should... but you're stubborn.
He is telling you this day to believe the miracles, And just as with Jesus then he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matt 13:58. It is no different today. If Jesus couldn't bring it how do you expect me to if you dont believe that God can work through us? And you call me stubborn?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Tell me, who was there to believe Jesus would raise Lazarus from the grave?

Just more nonsense from you. You're powerless.
You tell me who was there, you are the expert as you say.

And just as you say of me those who didnt believe Jesus either he also was powerless to do any might works because because of the same unbelief's that you deny Him in.

You act as if it is me who does the works of God instead of the God in me who does the work. He did the same in Jesus but like those you dont believe Him either that He does work through His disciples. He couldnt do anything in them either.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Paul was a little off in his assessment. Jesus was clear that the kingdom of God, heaven, the place God resides does not come with observation but is within you. That is why I follow what Jesus said instead of Paul in what he said about him. The resurrection of Christ, Gods anointing, is within all who has received him from that grave people hold him in and waiting for him to rise someday from it.
So in your theology Jesus did not rise from the dead with a human body and Jesus is not a man with a human body of flesh and bones now correct ?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
So in your theology Jesus did not rise from the dead with a human body and Jesus is not a man with a human body of flesh and bones now correct ?
I do not wait for a man to come as a God for the kingdom of God is come and resides within me. It really doesnt come with observation just as Jesus said -- and all who has recieved Him asa Jesus did know what that kingdom is.

Jesus was a man, made of a womn born under the law just as you and I, but just as all who has recieved Gods kingdom as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 knows what that kingdomn is and whare God lives in the temple of it that we are.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
I do not wait for a man to come as a God for the kingdom of God is come and resides within me. It really doesnt come with observation just as Jesus said -- and all who has recieved Him asa Jesus did know what that kingdom is.

Jesus was a man, made of a womn born under the law just as you and I, but just as all who has recieved Gods kingdom as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 knows what that kingdomn is and whare God lives in the temple of it that we are.
Is Jesus a man now ? yes or no
 

rakovsky

Well-known member
CIVIC,
I agree with what you are saying in the first Message (the OP). There is so much evidence that the Biblical OT and NT idea was of Christ having a bodily resurrection. A great piece of evidence is the empty tomb. What is the point of the empty tomb other than exposing that there is no physical body left in the tomb?

Now, the idea of the body coming back to life and defying matter and physics as we know them goes against our scientific experience of the world. So this leads us toward the direction of thinking that the body didn't resurrect. Probably what happens is that some like Gary Mac find the story of Jesus inspiring but they believe that the body didn't resurrect because it would defy their understanding of how the universe works, and so once they have reached this conclusion, then when they read the scriptures they reinterpret the scriptures to make it match what they think actually happened.

However this is a bad way to interpret miraculous literature. For instance, when you read the story of Jesus' physical miracles like raising Lazarus's "stinking" body, it doesn't make sense to just interpret that as a purely spiritual miracle as if Lazarus' body stopped stinking in some psychological way or if people imagined seeing Lazarus alive again when he stayed dead. The Lazarus story implies that physically dead and even rotting bodies like Lazarus' can reenliven.
 
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