The case from Saul of Tarsus

Joe

Active member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless
For those who have Bible versions that do not have "...kick against the goads" in Acts 9, it is mentioned in Acts 26:14.

The NLT renders it "It is useless for you to fight against my will.’ Not an NLT fan, but it captures the gist of the phrase here nicely.
 

JDS

Active member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless
Paul wrote, so then, faith cometh by hearing.

Paul heard the gospel of Jesus Christ preached in Jerusalem in Acts 7 by a man named Stephen. He could not have been saved on the Damascus Road had he not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ I know that because God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe, he says. The word of God is the seed that produces a birth. The reason we have this scenario with Paul on the Damascus Road is to illustrate in the physical what God is doing in the spiritual regarding his people Israel. Paul saw Jesus Christ with eyes that could see plainly but when he departed that day he was blind and could not see. He later had his eyes washed but could never see clearly ever again in his life. His partial blindness serves to illustrate the remnant of Israel and the partial blindness that his nation would suffer in this present age. The timing of this event is of great significance. It took place after 7 years of preaching to a disobedient and gainsaying people that God had his arms outstretched to as recorded in Romans 10, particularly the last few verses and immediately before God included the gentiles in Acts 10. This Bible that we have is the most wonderful of all books but a man must bow his knee to Jesus Christ and come to it as a little child and God will fill his heart with hi knowledge.

What I have recorded above is in keeping with the "ways of God." God always, I said always, makes himself known through illustrations in the physical and confirms it with the spiritual. This age has an end and we are right at it even as I write this. There are ages to come when God will utilize different principles that will yield different results. He has already illustrated those truths in the OT.

Therefore, my conclusion is that Paul, saved after the rejection of Israel, represented the small remnant that carried the gospel to the gentiles with whom God filled his house (family). Anyone may reject this truth , but it is still the truth.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

God bless
Yes...

When I joined here years ago, I remember a discussion about whether or not the Rich Young Ruler was Saul of Tarsus; since Jesus loved the RYR. If so, Election to Salvation is for a Divine purpose which will stand the test of God's timing...

Of course that discussion was divided across party lines like everything else. Calvinists said God loving the RYR meant he was Unconditionally Elect and Predestined, non Calvinists said God loving the RYR proves God loves everybody; even those who reject Jesus...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joe

civic

Well-known member
Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.
Excellent summary !
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Paul wrote, so then, faith cometh by hearing.

Paul heard the gospel of Jesus Christ preached in Jerusalem in Acts 7 by a man named Stephen. He could not have been saved on the Damascus Road had he not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ I know that because God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe, he says. The word of God is the seed that produces a birth. The reason we have this scenario with Paul on the Damascus Road is to illustrate in the physical what God is doing in the spiritual regarding his people Israel. Paul saw Jesus Christ with eyes that could see plainly but when he departed that day he was blind and could not see. He later had his eyes washed but could never see clearly ever again in his life. His partial blindness serves to illustrate the remnant of Israel and the partial blindness that his nation would suffer in this present age. The timing of this event is of great significance. It took place after 7 years of preaching to a disobedient and gainsaying people that God had his arms outstretched to as recorded in Romans 10, particularly the last few verses and immediately before God included the gentiles in Acts 10. This Bible that we have is the most wonderful of all books but a man must bow his knee to Jesus Christ and come to it as a little child and God will fill his heart with hi knowledge.

What I have recorded above is in keeping with the "ways of God." God always, I said always, makes himself known through illustrations in the physical and confirms it with the spiritual. This age has an end and we are right at it even as I write this. There are ages to come when God will utilize different principles that will yield different results. He has already illustrated those truths in the OT.

Therefore, my conclusion is that Paul, saved after the rejection of Israel, represented the small remnant that carried the gospel to the gentiles with whom God filled his house (family). Anyone may reject this truth , but it is still the truth.
Paul wasn't Saved until the scales fell from his eyes...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Paul wasn't Saved until the scales fell from his eyes...
Who are you LORD?? ~ by ReverendRV

Acts 9:5 ESV
; And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

This question comes from the Apostle Paul. He’s one of the most famous people in the Bible and is a hero of the Faith; but often we forget the Bible records that for a time Paul was a villain. During the days of his villainy his name was Saul. He would describe himself as, “a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in the city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers' law, and was zealous toward God as you Pharisees are today. I persecuted Christians to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the Saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities”. ~ Saul was on his way to Damascus for the purpose of persecuting Christians and this is when he met the LORD Jesus Christ. Saul was blinded by Gods light and heard a voice saying, “'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” Saul’s response to the voice of the LORD must have been one of the greatest shames in his life; he asked, “Who are you Lord?”…

This question is one of the most telling statements that a person Like Saul could have ever asked. In saying this, Saul intuitively admitted that he did not know the God whom he expressed to worship all his life! Imagine being one of the most devout religious leaders of his sect, the Pharisees. He was a Jew of the Jews and was an expert in the Laws of his religion; he was confident that he knew the one true God of all creation. If anyone should have known God when he saw him face to face; it should have been Saul. But to his shame, his first words upon meeting the God whom his fathers worshipped was to quickly admit that he did not know God. Saul thought that he knew God; but he only knew the idol he had made in his Mind to suit himself. ~ If one day you found yourself on your way to serve your God; what if the ‘Eternally Existent One’ stopped you in your tracks and asked you what in the world were you doing?? Might it be possible that the first words that spill out of your mouth would be, ‘Who are you Lord?’. How many of us think that we know God but actually we are deceiving ourselves because we would rather have a God that suits ourselves? This is the essence of Idolatry; one of the Ten Commandments which God has given to all people. The Ten Commandments were given to show us that we are Sinners. Have you ever stolen anything? God has said ‘thou shalt not steal’. All have Sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and we need Gods mercy to keep from being sentenced to his prison; which is an everlasting fiery Hell…

Saul would go on to find out who this God really is. This was Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh, who went on a rescue mission because he so loved the world. Jesus lived a Holy, Righteous life and accrued a good record; which he gladly trades to people for their bad records when they believe that he is the Lord. Read the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 and ask yourself if you would be guilty if God judged you by this standard. Being guilty, you would then understand that you would go to Hell. But you don’t have to end up there! Jesus gave his life on the Cross for the penalty of Sin so that you wouldn’t have to pay your penalty in Hell. Trust in the risen Jesus Christ as your Savior; Repent of your Sins and Confess him as your Lord God. Find a New Testament Church and learn how to answer God when you meet him; acknowledging “You are the Lord Jesus Christ!”…

Job 42:5 KJV; I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
 
Last edited:

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Who are you LORD?? ~ by ReverendRV

Acts 9:5 ESV
; And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

This question comes from the Apostle Paul. He’s one of the most famous people in the Bible and is a hero of the Faith; but often we forget the Bible records that for a time Paul was a villain. During the days of his villainy his name was Saul. He would describe himself as, “a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in the city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers' law, and was zealous toward God as you Pharisees are today. I persecuted Christians to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the Saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities”. ~ Saul was on his way to Damascus for the purpose of persecuting Christians and this is when he met the LORD Jesus Christ. Saul was blinded by Gods light and heard a voice saying, “'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” Saul’s response to the voice of the LORD must have been one of the greatest shames in his life; he asked, “Who are you Lord?”…

This question is one of the most telling statements that a person Like Saul could have ever asked. In saying this, Saul intuitively admitted that he did not know the God whom he expressed to worship all his life! Imagine being one of the most devout religious leaders of his sect, the Pharisees. He was a Jew of the Jews and was an expert in the Laws of his religion; he was confident that he knew the one true God of all creation. If anyone should have known God when he saw him face to face; it should have been Saul. But to his shame, his first words upon meeting the God whom his fathers worshipped was to quickly admit that he did not know God. Saul thought that he knew God; but he only knew the idol he had made in his Mind to suit himself. ~ If one day you found yourself on your way to serve your God; what if the ‘Eternally Existent One’ stopped you in your tracks and asked you what in the world were you doing?? Might it be possible that the first words that spill out of your mouth would be, ‘Who are you Lord?’. How many of us think that we know God but actually we are deceiving ourselves because we would rather have a God that suits ourselves? This is the essence of Idolatry; one of the Ten Commandments which God has given to all people. The Ten Commandments were given to show us that we are Sinners. Have you ever stolen anything? God has said ‘thou shalt not steal’. All have Sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and we need Gods mercy to keep from being sentenced to his prison; which is an everlasting fiery Hell…

Saul would go on to find out who this God really is. This was Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh, who went on a rescue mission because he so loved the world. Jesus lived a Holy, Righteous life and accrued a good record; which he gladly trades to people for their bad records when they believe that he is the Lord. Read the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 and ask yourself if you would be guilty if God judged you by this standard. Being guilty, you would then understand that you would go to Hell. But you don’t have to end up there! Jesus gave his life on the Cross for the penalty of Sin so that you wouldn’t have to pay your penalty in Hell. Trust in the risen Jesus Christ as your Savior; Repent of your Sins and Confess him as your Lord God. Find a New Testament Church and learn how to answer God when you meet him; acknowledging “You are the Lord Jesus Christ!”…

Job 42:5 KJV; I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Paul was already a covenant Israelite, God's own possession.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless
Paul was called to be an apostle as were the rest of the apostles

That is election to service

The reason for the choice we are not given
 

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless

Such a blessing.

 

Joe

Active member
Paul was called to be an apostle as were the rest of the apostles

That is election to service
Your argument has no foundation. All of creation is to serve His purpose for them. And everyone that God calls is called to His service. Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve Him only." The number of verses in the bible that talk about man's service to God are numerous. We are servants to God. Do you deny this?

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." (Eph 2:10)

"Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ." (Eph 4:11-12)

"and from Jesus Christ – the faithful witness, the firstborn from among the dead, the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood and has appointed us as a kingdom, as priests serving his God and Father – to him be the glory and the power for ever and ever! Amen." (Rev 1:5-6)

Saul learned that he was to submit himself to the Lord Jesus Christ because that was God's will. This is unarguable. And Saul must be a believer to accomplish God's will. This is unarguable. Saul's election was to belief and service. This is logically unarguable. God made a believer out of Saul, and Saul did what God foreordained for him to do...this is recorded fact.

The reason for the choice we are not given

Paul testified why he was chosen...Please notice the bold words. "But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

Everyone that is saved was chosen. And they were chosen in accordance to God's will and purpose. If you deny this, then you deny your very election from God and the works of service He prepared beforehand for you to do.

God bless
 

JDS

Active member
Paul wasn't Saved until the scales fell from his eyes...
Edit per mod

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Edit per mod

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
JDS... JDS... I'll have to remember that name...

I reckon I'll leave you to the others...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JDS

Active member
JDS... JDS... I'll have to remember that name...

I reckon I'll leave you to the others...
When one from the heart recognizes Jesus as Lord, he has defined and practiced repentance. Jesus said once these words, Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." If Jesus Christ is Lord, and he is righteous, then the repentant sinner is willing to follow him and do what he says, which obviously will be righteous deeds. Hence, the title from the heart as "Lord."

What happened on the Damascus Road with Saul, who would later be called Paul? He repented and called Jesus Lord. This is his confession. It is what is required for salvation according to the verses in Romans 10 that I quoted to you. What was the next question from Saul after he called Jesus Lord? His question was, "what will you have me do?" This seems to me like a change in direction for this great sinner.

This is where everyone must come. If you are waiting for Jesus to save you first so you can call him Lord you are preaching a contrary gospel that is not true and that cannot save you. Salvation is going to have to be your obedient submission to Jesus Christ as Lord. There is no other way.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Your argument has no foundation. All of creation is to serve His purpose for them. And everyone that God calls is called to His service. Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve Him only." The number of verses in the bible that talk about man's service to God are numerous. We are servants to God. Do you deny this?
Are all apostles ?

Your objection carries no weight

God's choice of servants is also refer to as election and those chosen are elect

Israel was elect

Isaiah 45:4 (KJV 1900)
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.







 

Thistle

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless
I believe you that is a very fair assessment of everything you just discussed. The question that tells you whether or not you were a Calvinist or an Armenian is whether God using his foreknowledge would look forward to see whether or not Paul would be one of those who love him as we read in Romans 8:27 and following.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Is Saul of Tarsus a case of God's election to salvation for a divine purpose whereby Saul's resistance of unbelief was overcome by God's mercy upon God's timing?

Saul was an unbelieving Pharisee who persecuted believing Jews. He was given authority from the High Priest to bind and bring back to Jerusalem any believer of Jesus Christ. He was present at the stoning of Stephen, giving his approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.

The account of Saul's conversion..."Saul asked from him (the High Priest) letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem. But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me? And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads. Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do." (Act 9:2-6)

Saul later testified..."But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

What is learned from Saul's conversion experience and testimony:
* Saul was chosen by God before He was born.
* God's choosing of Saul was purposed to His will.
* It was God's timing to reveal Jesus to him on the road to Damascus, to overcome Saul's unbelief and put Saul to work doing His will.
* Saul's resistance in unbelief was overcame by God's mercy.
* Jesus used a proverbial expression to inform Saul his resistance was as useless as an ox kicking back against the goad that is used to prod it along.

God has a divine purpose for his chosen. It is not arbitrary as many opponents to God's sovereignty suppose. As Paul taught, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God's elect are individually and effectually called from unbelief to belief by God's mercy and power, and this upon His timing, so that those whom He has chosen accomplish the works He has prepared for them to do for His glory.

God bless

Your argument has no foundation. All of creation is to serve His purpose for them. And everyone that God calls is called to His service. Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve Him only." The number of verses in the bible that talk about man's service to God are numerous. We are servants to God. Do you deny this?

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." (Eph 2:10)

"Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ." (Eph 4:11-12)

"and from Jesus Christ – the faithful witness, the firstborn from among the dead, the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood and has appointed us as a kingdom, as priests serving his God and Father – to him be the glory and the power for ever and ever! Amen." (Rev 1:5-6)

Saul learned that he was to submit himself to the Lord Jesus Christ because that was God's will. This is unarguable. And Saul must be a believer to accomplish God's will. This is unarguable. Saul's election was to belief and service. This is logically unarguable. God made a believer out of Saul, and Saul did what God foreordained for him to do...this is recorded fact.



Paul testified why he was chosen...Please notice the bold words. "But when it pleased God (God decided the time), who separated me from my mother's womb (being chosen by God before he was born), and called me by his grace (In mercy, God called Saul forth from unbelief to belief) , to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen" (the purpose of God choosing Saul and overcoming his resistance was to reveal Jesus to him so he would preach Christ among us Gentiles). (Gal 1:15-16)

Everyone that is saved was chosen. And they were chosen in accordance to God's will and purpose. If you deny this, then you deny your very election from God and the works of service He prepared beforehand for you to do.

God bless

Israel was already God's own possession, His chosen people. Paul was a covenant Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin.

Your argument fails because it fails to acknowledge this fact.
 
Top