The certainty and justice of everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

SavedByTheLord

Well-known member
The certainty and justice of everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

The Bible clearly says that it is the true word of God.
I have given 2 absolutely irrefutable proofs that God exists, and He created all things.

One thread is entitled “Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.” It is found in the Evolution… forum. In that, I used mathematical induction to prove that God Almighty created all things. I also proved that the Bible is His book.

Another thread is entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof.” It is in the Atheism … forum. In that, I used a proof which uses the law of non-contradiction. Assume there is no God. That leads to a contradiction, which is that there are no living things. But there are living things, so the assumption must have been false. Therefore, God Almighty created all things.

I also provided a list of other things that are also contradictions that result from the no God assumption. Every single one of these is a contradiction which proves the no God assumption is false. Therefore, God Almighty created all things. That list was a small set of the contradictions from the no God assumption. There are many more. The list is found in the thread entitled “Questions that disprove billions of years and evolution and prove that the Bible is true and God created all things in 6 days, 6000 years ago”. It is in the Evolution … forum.

I also provided 2 lists in one thread. The first was just some of the predictions from the Bible which have come true with exact details and exact timing. The second was advanced scientific knowledge that is found in the Bible, which is not explainable since these have not been discovered until recently. Most of these were made by the word of God about 2000 to 3500 years ago. These lists prove the Bible is the word of God and that what it says is true. Therefore, God created all things in 6-days about 6000 years ago without evolution. That also falsifies evolution and billions of years. God declare that when these predictions would show that He is God.

22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. 23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together. – Isa 41:22-23

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isa 46:10

There are other proofs that the Bible is true, and that God created all things. I will hopefully get them posted soon.

Now when faced with these undeniable proofs, some worthy opponents tried to refute these but failed miserably. It is not suspiring since the position that they are trying to defend is a lie. In Debate 101, when you do not have the truth or the facts, then try everything else. And they did. But of course, it failed because I am defending the truth. This failure, by worthy representatives of evolution and billions of years, also proves their theories are false.

According to the word of God, the Bible, unless a person repents and believes the gospel of Christ, they will be punished with everlasting torment in the lake of fire. This has just been proven beyond all doubt. Just imagine being dressed in a suit or heavy dress, wearing black, and standing in full sunlight in Death Valley at noon on July 1. That is not even close to what the torment of the lake of fire is like. It will be unimaginable. It will also be never ending. After a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion … trillion years, you will be no closer to the end than when you started. In fact, you will have just begun. This is also true for all that you know and love. If you were to believe the gospel of Christ, this could be there only chance they have of escaping everlasting torment since you could convince them of it. Picture your children if you have children or another family member. And remember there will be no second chances, no appeal to some court.

So now the question is, is this just? It is certain but is it just. Since it is the judgment of God then it is just. I will give you the reasons why this is just. First every thought, word, and deed that you do that is against God is a sin. If you live to about 70 years old, you will probably sin about 1 to 2 million times. That is a lot of evil. So, God gives the death sentence as punishment for all your sins and to stop all your future evil. If you lived for a 70 trillion years, you would probably sin over 1 million trillion times. And if you lived forever, you would sin an infinite number of times. So, to prevent evil, God not only gives the death sentence, which is just for what you did, but must put you into confinement forever. Else, evil would happen all the time. And of course, now, it prevents all that future evil too.

In a way, the unsaved probably will not want to be in heaven. They hate Christ, hate the gospel, hate the saved, and hate having to admit they are wrong, ever. That is why the never repent their whole lives. In heaven all the saved are there. They will be worshipping the Lord Jesus Christ all the time, singing praises to Him, praising Him and His name. And everyone will know the truth, so all and even the condemned will know that the condemned were always wrong. So those that are unbelievers would not want to be in heaven. God is not a tyrant who would force the truth on people or force them to love and worship Him. But part of you was created to live forever. So where will you go. Not in heaven. Remember you will hate it there. And God must keep you from there anyway because you would make that hell forever. So, God mercifully spares you from heaven which you would hate forever anyhow.

But where would God keep you? Got to be in eternal flame. The unsaved have not been regenerated so thy cannot keep their thoughts from hate and evil. They will have eternal hate of themselves and those that are in heaven. They would continually attack each other because of that eternal hate. In fact, if would consume their every though. So, as a blessing, God puts them in everlasting torment.

Many who do not believe in the God of the Bible, are unaware that Satan does exist and is a great deceiver. He has deceived the world in to believing in the false science of evolution and billions of years. Therefore, they have been fooled into rejecting God the Creator who has revealed himself in the Bible. This is all predicted in the Bible to happen in the last days, our very time, which of course in another proof that the Bible is true. Evolutionists and the proponent of billions of years have used deceit in it all. Some, who have been deceived, say they hate the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, His gospel, and His people. Some will not answer the question is murder good or evil. Some say that lying is not a sin. Could you trust them? Of course not.

Evolution and billions of years is one the greatest lies ever and one of the greatest delusions ever. It is also one of the greatest evils ever. All that time, effort, money, and talent wasted instead of real help for people worldwide. It has brought untold misery to the world. If you have believed or supported this evil, you will give an account to God. Censorship, propaganda, indoctrination and lies have been used without mercy.

What I have told you is absolutely the truth. I would never want you or anyone that you know and love to go to everlasting torment in the lake of fire. It is just too horrific to even comprehend. I love you too much not to warn you. This is the most important decision you will ever make. I am begging with you, I am pleading with you, please repent before it is too late. You could die at any moment. We have seen this especially lately. People having heart attacks, dropping dead, killed by Covid, some from the Covid vaccine, some from random killings, crazy natural events like floods, tornados, fires. This is true for you and everyone that you love. So please repent.

I have a thread “Where will you spend eternity?” in Apologetics. Please read that. It tells how to escape the greatest never-ending nightmare and instead get unending joy and happiness with Jesus Christ.

Here is a YouTube video. It is about how loving Jesus Christ is to be tortured on the cross for your sins. Here is the lyrics too.


O the Blood lyrics

O the blood
Crimson love
Price of life's demand
Shameful sin
Placed on Him
The Hope of every man

O the blood of Jesus washes me
O the blood of Jesus shed for me
What a sacrifice that saved my life
Yes, the blood, it is my victory

Savior Son
Holy One
Slain so I can live
Oh, see the Lamb
The great I Am
Who takes away my sin

O the blood of Jesus washes me
O the blood of Jesus shed for me
What a sacrifice that saved my life
Yes, the blood, it is my victory

O the blood of the Lamb
O the blood of the Lamb
O the blood of the Lamb
The precious blood of the Lamb
What a sacrifice that saved my life
Yes, the blood, it is my victory

O what love
No greater love
Grace, how can it be
That in my sin
Yes, even then
He shed His blood for me

O the blood of Jesus washes me
O the blood of Jesus shed for me
What a sacrifice that saved my life
Yes, the blood, it is my victory
What a sacrifice that saved my life
Yes, the blood, it is my victory
 
Ignoring the spam, there is no justice in everlasting torture. It is evil to the core.

There are two reasons for punishment (of which torture is an obvious form):
  • The modification of objectionable behavior into acceptable behavior. aka. negative reinforcement
  • The payment of a commensurate penalty, due to objectionable behavior. aka. a debt owed to the victim(s)

Everlasting torture can/will never modify behavior, because it never stops. Spanking a child until they're dead (eg) never gives the child a chance to learn from the punishment and subsequently behave better.

Everlasting torture can never repay the debt incurred by a finite being, because finite beings (ie. humans) can only commit finite crimes. Only an infinite crime justifies everlasting torture, but a person with a relatively short lifespan is incapable of committing such a thing.

And thus everlasting torture is fundamentally evil. It serves no purpose other than to please the torturer.

Not a good look for someone who is claimed to be Love itself...
 
Already have done.

Please fill in the missing premise.

1. Cell phones have a designer.
2. N cell phones have a designer
1. A Cell phone has a designer. (n=1)
2. K cell phones have a designer (n=k)
3. K+ 1 cell phones = K cell phones + 1 cell phone. - both have a designer., so K=1 cell phones have a designer
Universe is more than K+1 cell phones.
Universe has a designer.
 
1. A Cell phone has a designer. (n=1)
2. K cell phones have a designer (n=k)
3. K+ 1 cell phones = K cell phones + 1 cell phone. - both have a designer., so K=1 cell phones have a designer
Universe is more than K+1 cell phones.
Universe has a designer.
Oh good grief. You obviously know nothing of logic. But we knew that anyway.
 
Oh good grief. You obviously know nothing of logic. But we knew that anyway.
So you believe that very many cell phones are not created by an intelligence? That is bizarre.
So you believe that very many cell phones and every intelligently created object in a city or all civilization are not created by an intelligence? That is very bizarre.
So you believe all living things as complex as they are, were not created by an intelligent being? That is pure absolute insanity.
You are greatly deceived and that too is a prediction.
 
Ignoring the spam, there is no justice in everlasting torture. It is evil to the core.
It's a good thing then that YHVH won't be torturing anyone.




There are two reasons for punishment (of which torture is an obvious form):
  • The modification of objectionable behavior into acceptable behavior. aka. negative reinforcement
  • The payment of a commensurate penalty, due to objectionable behavior. aka. a debt owed to the victim(s)

Everlasting torture can/will never modify behavior, because it never stops. Spanking a child until they're dead (eg) never gives the child a chance to learn from the punishment and subsequently behave better.

Everlasting torture can never repay the debt incurred by a finite being, because finite beings (ie. humans) can only commit finite crimes. Only an infinite crime justifies everlasting torture, but a person with a relatively short lifespan is incapable of committing such a thing.

And thus everlasting torture is fundamentally evil. It serves no purpose other than to please the torturer.

Not a good look for someone who is claimed to be Love itself...

So, in your mind the murder of an eternal soul only warrants a finite amount of time?
Or, the rape of a woman or child, created in the image of the eternal God requires no justice beyond your own understanding?

What about the slaughter of hundreds of millions of people who were slaughtered like animals, for no other reason than they were alive at a time inconvenient to their murderers?

They were all human souls who were created to live forever.

Don't they deserve justice?
 
So you believe that very many cell phones are not created by an intelligence? That is bizarre.
What's bizarre is that you would think that.
So you believe that very many cell phones and every intelligently created object in a city or all civilization are not created by an intelligence? That is very bizarre.
Again, that you would think this is very bizarre.
So you believe all living things as complex as they are, were not created by an intelligent being? That is pure absolute insanity.
Your thinking isn't very logical. This commits the fallacy of personal incredulity, i.e. I can't see how this could be naturally, therefore God.
You are greatly deceived and that too is a prediction.
Satan is deceiving you about all this.
 
The certainty and justice of everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

The Bible clearly says that it is the true word of God.
I have given 2 absolutely irrefutable proofs that God exists, and He created all things.

One thread is entitled “Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.” It is found in the Evolution… forum. In that, I used mathematical induction to prove that God Almighty created all things. I also proved that the Bible is His book.

Another thread is entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof.” It is in the Atheism … forum. In that, I used a proof which uses the law of non-contradiction. Assume there is no God. That leads to a contradiction, which is that there are no living things. But there are living things, so the assumption must have been false. Therefore, God Almighty created all things.

In the thread titled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof.” in post #189 and post #227 I proved your argument false.
 
1. A Cell phone has a designer. (n=1)
Granted.
2. K cell phones have a designer (n=k)
Granted.

3. K+ 1 cell phones = K cell phones + 1 cell phone. - both have a designer., so K=1 cell phones have a designer
Granted, but I think you mean, "K+1 (not K=1) cell phones have a designer." Right?

Universe is more than K+1 cell phones.
Do you "more" in the sense of number, size, or complexity (or something else)?

If you mean in terms of number, K+1 is the number of cell phones, but there is only one universe, so 1 is less than K+1

If you mean in terms of size, the universe is bigger than all the cell phones, but a greater size does not necessarily imply a designer.

If you mean in terms of complexity, and you're trying to say that, if something is more complex than something else that is designed, then the more complex thing is designed, that conclusion in and of itself needs to be supported, which you haven't done yet. I look forward to that support.

Or do you mean something else besides number, size, or complexity?

Universe has a designer.
Not quite yet, you need to clarify how the universe is more than K+1 cell phones. Then we can go from there.
 
What's bizarre is that you would think that.

Again, that you would think this is very bizarre.

Your thinking isn't very logical. This commits the fallacy of personal incredulity, i.e. I can't see how this could be naturally, therefore God.

Satan is deceiving you about all this.
It’s what you seem to think
I know that an intelligently designed object proves the existence of a intelligent creator
 
It’s what you seem to think
I know that an intelligently designed object proves the existence of a intelligent creator
Of course that's right by definition. Now all you need to do is show that the universe was intelligently designed.

We know phones have designers because everything we know about phones includes that they were designed. What we know about the universe does not include a designer.

If you came across a phone on a path, how would you know it was designed by humans? One way is to contrast it against nature, as nothing like phones occur in nature. Phones and paintings etc have designers, but you can't draw that principle from what humans create and apply it to the universe.
 
Of course that's right by definition. Now all you need to do is show that the universe was intelligently designed.

We know phones have designers because everything we know about phones includes that they were designed. What we know about the universe does not include a designer.

If you came across a phone on a path, how would you know it was designed by humans? One way is to contrast it against nature, as nothing like phones occur in nature. Phones and paintings etc have designers, but you can't draw that principle from what humans create and apply it to the universe.
You mean the universe and everything in it
That includes all living things
They proved the existence of God the Creator
 
The Bible clearly says that it is the true word of God.
So does the Quran.

I have given 2 absolutely irrefutable proofs that God exists, and He created all things.
Your proofs were refuted with remarkable ease.

One thread is entitled “Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction.
Which turned out not to use mathematical induction at all. You have been unable to put your proof into MI format, or to explain how you think MI works. Several posters have repeatedly explained in detail how you have got it wrong.

Another thread is entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof.”
And it was pointed out that following specific processes constrained by the laws of chemistry is not random chance, so your probability calculations are incorrect.

I also provided a list of other things that are also contradictions that result from the no God assumption. Every single one of these is a contradiction which proves the no God assumption is false.
You posted sets of questions, many of which have been directly answered for you several times, and you have been unable to derive any contradiction from those answers, so you do not have a successful RAA proof.

I also provided 2 lists in one thread. The first was just some of the predictions from the Bible which have come true with exact details and exact timing.
None of your prophecies specified any exact details or exact timing. They were hopelessly vague, and to the extent they are satisfied at all this could easily have been by chance. One of your examples of "exact details and timing" was a prophecy that at some point in the future, people would be traveling about and learning things.

The second was advanced scientific knowledge that is found in the Bible, which is not explainable since these have not been discovered until recently.
Several of your examples of "advanced scientific knowledge" were things that are expressly rejected by the vast majority of the scientific community, while others were retroactive interpretations of passages which can only be vaguely connected to the scientific truth they supposedly describe.

There are other proofs that the Bible is true, and that God created all things. I will hopefully get them posted soon.
I hope they fair better than your above attempts, but our expectations are not high.
 
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