The Christian God is Love?

5wize

Well-known member
Ok.

What do you base your opinion on, and why is your opinion more valid than the 34 centuries of evidence to the contrary?
The God that is described in the Bible is not manifest in this world. 34 centuries are not support of the hypothesis but are becoming further evidence of the lack of the God of the Bible's ability to become a clear and consistent affect in this world. It seems the world's experience of the supernatural are becoming more and more diffuse and opposing as well as completely absent in many cases as you see here. Whatever childish and anthropomorphic outline given to God in the Bible is not faring well as the eras of superstition fade, and where bad superstition still thrives, much of it opposes the Bible's bad version of reality.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Actually, the command was to the rapist to marry the victim as a form of restitution. It was not a command to the victim. So, you lied when you claim God says the victim has to marry the rapist.
This is from the New International bible...
.28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. ,,,

...it doesn't look like the woman has much choice. Do you not appreciate the trauma that rape can bring? And the victim must marry the man who caused it?

Don't you think that the moral standard of the Bible would be raised if it said, the person who rapes a woman must be provided for, for the rest of her life but still live with her parents?
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Yeah, the problem is that you assume babies were drowned.
Assuming makes more an a88 out of you than the person you're accusing.

"I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish." -- Genesis 6:17

The Bible says floodwaters destroy all life - every creature that has breath will die by floodwater. That would include babies and children. It cannot be clearer. This is not some obscure Biblical passage that is open to interpretation. It is incredibly clear.

I am not assuming anything.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Ok. I have an idea for you....
Travel back to 1450 BCE, hook up with Moses, while he's on the mountain talking with YHVH, and talk it over with them. I think this will be the most effective way of handling it. then, when you return, let's talk further. I'd love to hear the outcome of that conversation.
If we could do this we would have empirical evidence. Since we cannot I see no reason to believe any of it happened.
Yet you provide me with no empirical evidence to think you know what you're talking about. Why is that?
I don't know why you do not understand that I do not accept your evidence as empirical.
I don't need to rationalize. I'm not the one having a problem with what was stated 3450 years ago, and then committing suicide to prove the error of their beliefs.
I am not going to commit suicide - thank for your concern.
Again, take it up with YHVH.
This is like telling me to take it up with Odin.
Considering that he's the one who commanded it, and according to his own word, knows eternity past to eternity future, it's pretty clear he was fully aware of your complaint back then, and didn't concern himself with it.

So.... you go right ahead. Take it up with Him.
Again - you could just as easily say take it up with Odin. These vague threats of supernatural judgement are meaningless until you can demonstrate that your god exists at all.
Well--- you're the one who is complaining to someone in the present about something that was written down 3450 years ago.
So, it seems to me that it's you who are acting nonsensical.
I am not complaining. I am just saying that is silly to believe in supernatural events from 3,400 years ago that you cannot prove. I only ask for the evidence because you believe these things happened with no way of know that they happened. And I think that is a terrible path to truth :)
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Thanks for your opinion, but I choose to go with the text, which says that the command is to the rapist, not the victim.
So, the rapist "must" marry the victim, but the victim doesn't have to marry the rapist, right? Where does it say in the Bible that the victim doesn't have to marry her rapist?
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Ok.

What do you base your opinion on, and why is your opinion more valid than the 34 centuries of evidence to the contrary?
It's not 5wize's opinion that there is no credibility in the bible's message, Steve

It is OUR opinion - his, mine, and YOURS!
It is the opinion of most every human being on earth that many of the acts ascribed to God in scripture were evil and immoral

The proof is in the pudding, Steve
The proof is that practically no human being would ever dream of doing half of what we are told in scripture that God did
The proof is that you, personally, would never dream of doing half of what the bible tells us that God did because you know better!

Deep down, you know full well that God is unworthy of our devotion due His immorality
Deep down, you know full well that there is no credibility in the bible's message due the immorality of God as described therein

However, you choose to suppress this knowledge in exchange for God saving you from Himself
Sad, sad, sad
 

Lt. Columbo

New Member
"I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish." -- Genesis 6:17

The Bible says floodwaters destroy all life - every creature that has breath will die by floodwater. That would include babies and children. It cannot be clearer. This is not some obscure Biblical passage that is open to interpretation. It is incredibly clear.

I am not assuming anything.
Yet the door is left open for exceptions -not all life is to be destroyed.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Yet the door is left open for exceptions -not all life is to be destroyed.
Yes, but is this reason enough to glorify God?

He drowned the entire human race minus one man and his family...

He has decreed that you, I, and every other man is born fated for Hell minus the acceptance of salvific grace bestowed by Christ...

I trust that you would feel grateful towards me if I pulled you to safety from your burning house
Would you still feel grateful, however, if it were revealed that it was I who consciously and purposefully set your house on fire?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
It's not 5wize's opinion that there is no credibility in the bible's message, Steve

It is OUR opinion - his, mine, and YOURS!
You keep imposing your opinions on me.
It's not MY opinion that agrees with yours.
You do however do a great job of demonstrating that you demand capitulation.
So, thank you.

It is the opinion of most every human being on earth that many of the acts ascribed to God in scripture were evil and immoral
So, because there are some who agree with you, that makes you right?
Apparently you've not paid any attention to what God said about this.

1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?​
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.”​
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.​
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:​

The day is coming when humanity, who remain, will turn against Him, and the blowback will be uuugggllllyyyy

Christ on a White Horse​
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[fn] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[fn] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:​
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.​
The Beast and His Armies Defeated​
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[fn] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[fn] and slave, both small and great.”​
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.​

The day will come when Jesus, and those who were with him in Heaven will come on horses, and as all the armies of earth had gathered in the valley of Megiddo, they were getting ready to destroy Israel, they will turn their weapons on Jesus, and with a word, he will slay them. And all the birds will eat their bodies.
So..... I find myself wondering..... just because you think it's a popular opinion, it's actually a correct opinion?
Don't be a fool Tree!

The proof is in the pudding, Steve
The proof is that practically no human being would ever dream of doing half of what we are told in scripture that God did
The proof is that you, personally, would never dream of doing half of what the bible tells us that God did because you know better!
And yet here I am, a gunshot victim, and a multiple, stage 4 metastatic malignant melanoma cancer patient, who according to my oncologists, should've been dead 2 decades ago, am standing before you..... With the testimony that I am a miracle. Not from just one doctor. Not from just two. Not from 3, 4, or even 8 doctors. I am a miracle according to 9 medical doctors, 2 PhD's, and a variety of nursing staff.

You really do have a special brand of ignorance Tree.

So, tell me how your lack of awareness is evidence that your opinions, and the opinions of people whom you think you know are right.


Deep down, you know full well that God is unworthy of our devotion due His immorality
Deep down, you know full well that there is no credibility in the bible's message due the immorality of God as described therein
🤔 :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Actually, deep down, I actually KNOW full well that YHVH is Worthy of my devotion, and that the bible is wholly credible, explicitly because God judges sin, fulfilling his promise to do so, and will do so again, while demonstrating his mercy, grace, and love to all who place their trust in Jesus.


However, you choose to suppress this knowledge in exchange for God saving you from Himself
Sad, sad, sad
I'm quite alright that you think what you believe is sad. I'm also quite alright that you're choosing your own damnation. I find it sad that you'd rather spend your eternity in the lake of fire, rather than paradise, created explicitly with you in mind.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
You keep imposing your opinions on me.
It's not MY opinion that agrees with yours.
You do however do a great job of demonstrating that you demand capitulation.
So, thank you.


So, because there are some who agree with you, that makes you right?
Apparently you've not paid any attention to what God said about this.

1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?​
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.”​
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.​
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:​

The day is coming when humanity, who remain, will turn against Him, and the blowback will be uuugggllllyyyy

Christ on a White Horse​

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[fn] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[fn] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:​
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.​
The Beast and His Armies Defeated​

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[fn] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[fn] and slave, both small and great.”​
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.​

The day will come when Jesus, and those who were with him in Heaven will come on horses, and as all the armies of earth had gathered in the valley of Megiddo, they were getting ready to destroy Israel, they will turn their weapons on Jesus, and with a word, he will slay them. And all the birds will eat their bodies.
So..... I find myself wondering..... just because you think it's a popular opinion, it's actually a correct opinion?
Don't be a fool Tree!


And yet here I am, a gunshot victim, and a multiple, stage 4 metastatic malignant melanoma cancer patient, who according to my oncologists, should've been dead 2 decades ago, am standing before you..... With the testimony that I am a miracle. Not from just one doctor. Not from just two. Not from 3, 4, or even 8 doctors. I am a miracle according to 9 medical doctors, 2 PhD's, and a variety of nursing staff.

You really do have a special brand of ignorance Tree.

So, tell me how your lack of awareness is evidence that your opinions, and the opinions of people whom you think you know are right.



🤔 :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Actually, deep down, I actually KNOW full well that YHVH is Worthy of my devotion, and that the bible is wholly credible, explicitly because God judges sin, fulfilling his promise to do so, and will do so again, while demonstrating his mercy, grace, and love to all who place their trust in Jesus.



I'm quite alright that you think what you believe is sad. I'm also quite alright that you're choosing your own damnation. I find it sad that you'd rather spend your eternity in the lake of fire, rather than paradise, created explicitly with you in mind.
Prove it, Steve!

Prove that I am imposing my opinion upon you!!

We have been over this many. many times - all you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that drowning babies is good and just

And yet, you never do!

All you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that owning slaves is good and just

And yet, you never do!

All you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that it is good and just to kill a human being because he/she doesn't believe in your god

And yet, you never do!

Why is that, Steve?
Why won't you say that these things that God did are good and just?

It's because they are not good and just
It's because they are immoral and evil and you know this!!

You know that God is immoral and evil!!!
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Prove it, Steve!

Prove that I am imposing my opinion upon you!!

We have been over this many. many times - all you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that drowning babies is good and just

And yet, you never do!

All you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that owning slaves is good and just

And yet, you never do!

All you have to do is to say, right here and right now, that it is good and just to kill a human being because he/she doesn't believe in your god

And yet, you never do!

Why is that, Steve?
Why won't you say that these things that God did are good and just?

It's because they are not good and just
It's because they are immoral and evil and you know this!!

You know that God is immoral and evil!!!
You just did.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I just did what?

Prove that you are a decent human being at heart?
Prove that there is still hope for you?

Yeah, I did
Boy, for someone who claims to be so intelligent, you sure have a short attention span.
You should either learn to increase your attention span, or stop writing such lengthy posts, which you obviously cannot keep up with.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Boy, for someone who claims to be so intelligent, you sure have a short attention span.
You should either learn to increase your attention span, or stop writing such lengthy posts, which you obviously cannot keep up with.
Ball is in your court, Steve

You can shut me up real quick and prove, once and for all, that I am falsely attributing my opinion to you

Again, all you have to do is to state, here and now, that it is good and just to drown babies and own slaves and kill people for not believing in your God

How come you don't??
 

Furion

Well-known member
Great point. We should all pretend God is all-loving, and go through the motions of worshiping him, so we when he judges us, we will not make God angry when he judges us.

It is, however, a curious argument for God actually being love, but I guess it is the best Christianity has to offer.
Interesting that the materialistic life is really a bag of nothing.

Love has no purpose for hate, or anything else that is not in accord with the unity of love.

So it is evil and hate, and all opposition to the purposes of love, which needs eliminated, by necessity.

God is love, and love doesn't suffer evil in my view, it needs eliminated.

So it is with all who oppose God, they oppose unity with others bound by the chord of love, and God will eliminate it from His creation, once and forever.

So as you sit in judgment of God, love will pass you by.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Ball is in your court, Steve

You can shut me up real quick and prove, once and for all, that I am falsely attributing my opinion to you

Again, all you have to do is to state, here and now, that it is good and just to drown babies and own slaves and kill people for not believing in your God

How come you don't??


It is OUR opinion - his, mine, and YOURS!
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Interesting that the materialistic life is really a bag of nothing.

Love has no purpose for hate, or anything else that is not in accord with the unity of love.

So it is evil and hate, and all opposition to the purposes of love, which needs eliminated, by necessity.

God is love, and love doesn't suffer evil in my view, it needs eliminated.

So it is with all who oppose God, they oppose unity with others bound by the chord of love, and God will eliminate it from His creation, once and forever.

So as you sit in judgment of God, love will pass you by.
Oh look! It's trying to being a part of the conversation.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Interesting that the materialistic life is really a bag of nothing.
It is what it is. If the evidence points to there being no Christian God, then I will believe there is no Christian God, even if I do not like the consequences of that. I cannot choose to think God exists because I would prefer reality to be that that.

Is it different for you? Do you think Christianity is true because that is what you want to be the case, rather than because that is what evidence points to?

Love has no purpose for hate, or anything else that is not in accord with the unity of love.

So it is evil and hate, and all opposition to the purposes of love, which needs eliminated, by necessity.
Not sure I get your point here.

God is love, and love doesn't suffer evil in my view, it needs eliminated.
In what sense is God love? Presumably you are not saying the words are synonyms.

If God is love, why does he choose to send people to the hell he created? What sort of love is that?

So it is with all who oppose God, they oppose unity with others bound by the chord of love, and God will eliminate it from His creation, once and forever.
So again I ask, how is that love? How do you reconcile sending people to eternal torture with love?

So as you sit in judgment of God, love will pass you by.
I find it disturbing that we are not permitted to think about whether God is good. Why would God punish us - send us to eternal torture - if we question if he is good or not? I think the only answer is that God is not good. He wants us to believe he is good, but it is not true, and to stop anyone saying that it is not true, he declares that those who judge him will be tortured forever.

It is an Orwellian totalitarian regime where people are tortured if they fail to spout the one-party propaganda. It is a rejection of truth and freedom. It is the antithesis of good - but we dare not say that!
 
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