Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
All will rise, those asleep in Christ and those dead. We who are asleep in Christ to eternal life and the dead to eternal damnation.
The Church of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter dberrie2020
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Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? | GotQuestions.org
Who are the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? What happens to the souls of Christians when they die?
www.gotquestions.org
And the NT Jew’s did? what are you talking about…the “Temple” Jews Crucified Christ, they had no affiliation with Christ…and for the most part, except for a small group of Messianic Jews today, reject Christ as the Messiah today. The LDS temple is not even close to The Temple. Buddhist temples are probably closer.
Well in regards to what the difference is, The Temple did not have a statue of a mythical angel blowing a horn on the roof area. The Temple was where God dwelt, and sacrifices/Korban were offered in the way of animal sacrifices. The Temple did not usher in men and women for marriages, have their body parts washed and blessed, whether actually like in the past of symbolically …movies with the depliction of satan playing a key role mocking Christian leaders…and so on and so on. The Temple did not Baptize people for the dead, nor did they baptize anyone…they did ceremonial washings for the priests.
There were also specific court yards, gates, and judicial buildings for the Sanhedrin…I would need to re-study this but believe me there is a difference, a huge one.
If you are trying to compare the LDS temples to The Temple after it is re-built…focus on the re-built you had better re-think what that implies.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Your point was specific to "they":
When I posted "they" in relationship to we, us, and the church--
1 Corinthians 15:17-18--King James Version
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
---you then fabricate an exclusion clause ("29 is not") to cover your tracks, by unceremoniously chunking it out the window of your choosing.
Nope. Won't work. If "they" is pertaining to those outside of the we, us, or the church--then it's an obvious double standard to exclude it when it's convenient to you, or doesn't fit your theology.
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
N/T
dberrie2020
Super Member
LOL!!! Markk--please reread and follow your post. My retort was a direct response to your point above---IE--
”They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge"
My retort to you--
"You still haven't explained for us how that differs from the Biblical testimony:
Ephesians 3:19--King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."
So--care to engage that?
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
My point was they was directed at those who were asleep in Christ in verses 17-18 and the they in verse 29 was not. Simple. It is you struggling with this, not me.
dberrie2020
Super Member
DB wrote…Neither the Buddhist nor the Hindus claim any affiliation with Jesus Christ.
Markk--since Jesus, the NT apostles and prophets, and most of the early NT church were Jews--then I would say--yes.
What has that got to do with these servants, or this temple?
Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
You still haven't revealed to us what differences you see in the LDS temple--and the temple here, as far as the description goes:
Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Again--the Buddhist have no affiliation with Jesus Christ, nor claim any.
Such as this?
Isaiah 18:3---King James Version
3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
Markk--since Jesus, the NT apostles and prophets, and most of the early NT church were Jews--then I would say--yes.
What has that got to do with these servants, or this temple?
Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
You still haven't revealed to us what differences you see in the LDS temple--and the temple here, as far as the description goes:
Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Again--the Buddhist have no affiliation with Jesus Christ, nor claim any.
Such as this?
Isaiah 18:3---King James Version
3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
dberrie2020
Super Member
So--let's count the cost:
I posted 1Cor15:29:
1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
You countered and claimed the use of "they" was counter to us, we, or the church:
My retort was this:
1 Corinthians 15:17-18--King James Version
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
With the question to you--isn't the "they" in that verse a part of "we, us, or the church"?
You then start with your exclusion claims.
I don't need to.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
The load you hoisted on us.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
He's not calling that hooey and you know it.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
The observation he made is clear. We adhere to the biblical standard, you all don't. It seems odd that you all have no explanation. Instead, what you do is attack the one church that does adhere to the Biblical standard.
We didn't come here to attack anyone else's beliefs. If you all didn't waste your time attacking our, we wouldn't be here.
This is the way I understand it. The OP states, why are you attacking us over the fact that we have temples which match the description found in the New Testament when you all don't have anything that even remotely resembles the testimony found in scriptures you claim to believe are true.
Isn't that the same as crying about us persecuting you because I'm hitting your fist with my face?
You have a knack for twisting the argument. Why can't you just answer the question?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
"They" are the dead who obviously can't do the work for themselves. Paul makes no other reference to others. That's an example of you adding to the scriptures. The original argument, as I recall, was why would Paul be using the activity of pagans to prove a Christian point. Obviously, someone is doing baptisms for the dead and it's not the dead that he is referring to.
I have answered his interpretations over and over…I tell you what lets you and I do a study on th e first 3 chapter of eph. And I will walk youthough my interpretation, and then you can explain your interpretation and then we can see if we agree, disagree, or other? Is that fair.
I clearly answered the question, and made clear points and counter points. Look at the threads started by DB, and tell me who is pushing there faith on whom.
I lived the LDS faith and understand it the doctrines well…and I am honest with my exegesis…is DB…you don’t hav e to answer that we know the answer.
I am not twisting anything, i know LDS doctrine and Christian doctrine, and study both, and can be objective, and relate it as such.
But anyways…lets just study the word together and see what it means to each one of us respectively …is that fair? Let’s start with Eph 1.1?
I am curious, do you like DB believe that HF or Christ, can choose to be either good or evil, I find this a interesting paradox that DB asserts?
dberrie2020
Super Member
Back the wagon up--there's another load of hooey being dumped. What a crock!
You/me were talking about the Jerusalem Temple…which wasin control of basically Jesus haters. You are now changing your original assertion. NT believers were at odds with those at the Temple, or better put those at the Temple were at odds with Christian’s. Jesus did what to those at the Temple? The Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots, and maybe even the Essenes controlled the Temple. The few accounts of any apostle visiting the Temple was always more or less “a visit” and seemingly outside looking in.
You hav even removed from your talking point, and are struggling…when face with what your faith teaches it does not look so good does it. I dealt with it DB as did Mags, there is life after Mormonism if you ar e honest enough to just do a honest study.
dberrie2020
Super Member
Brother--you speak the truth!
dberrie2020
Super Member
Please don't confuse hooey with an honest study.
You haven't dealt with anything but fabricated assertations, IMO.
But you could deal with this:
Such as this?
Isaiah 18:3---King James Version
3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
You believe you can become a God and have a tendency and or make a choice to become evil
You said Satan is a God
I didn’t claim this, you did…right?