So, how does on know if they are deceived or not? How do you know if you are led by the Holy Spirit?
The Church vs. The Individual
- Thread starter Anselm01
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Our Lord's God
Well-known member
By listening to God who gives us His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth which leads us into all the truth.
Because God Himself tells us. We know who our Father is.
That same Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:16
We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit that He has given us. 1 John 3:24
His sheep hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. The know the sound of his voice and they follow him.
This all sounds very subjective and has no way of external verification. Am I just supposed to take your work for it?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
You need to verify God for yourself do you?
Well since you obviously are not experiencing what true believers know, then you are either going to have to decide or you are going to have to wonder why you aren't experiencing that same Spirit in you.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
How do we know who the 'True Believers' are?
How do we know what 'Spirit' is in us?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Same Spirit, same Father. You will know them by their fruits.
Same way you know your own father. Does God give you another spirit besides His own?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?” Luke 11:13
The sheep know the sound of their Shepherd's voice.
No, but why should I trust you?
How do I know you are a "true believer?"
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
I hear Christ, does that mean others [you] hear someone else?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Oh, how do you know you hear Christ?
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Probably the same way you do.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
And what's YOUR answser?
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
I am "experiencing that same Spirit" in me. [as a true believer] post 204
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
I am "experiencing that same Spirit" in me. [as a true believer] post 204
Well then you won't need to ask me how it works will you?
Manfred
Well-known member
Grasping at straws and nothing but pointless Ad Hom.
It speaks to your character Arch.
If you were able to link to any lie you would have. Calling me a liar without showing me lying?
You have lost all credibility.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Thank you for the compliment
you already posted the lies... look at 197 [example - continuing a sacrifice. You should know better -- you are responsible for every false word against Christ!
CCC 1330 The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering....
YOU have lost all credibility!
Manfred
Well-known member
I am not the liar that claims Christ is sacrificed again and again....
That would be you when you sacrifice him again and again.
You make him present and sacrifice Him again by eating him, then you make present again, and sacrifice him again...
How absurd... And you call me a liar...
28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
How many times have you had Him appear again and again, only to eat him again and again........
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
CCC 1330 The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering....
Mal 1:11
From the rising of the sun to its setting,
my name is great among the nations;
Incense offerings are made to my name EVERYWHERE,
and a PURE OFFERING;
For my name is great among the nations,
says the LORD of hosts.
my name is great among the nations;
Incense offerings are made to my name EVERYWHERE,
and a PURE OFFERING;
For my name is great among the nations,
says the LORD of hosts.
Manfred
Well-known member
And you think old testament incense offerings justifies your sacrificing of Christ again and again?
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
You still have priests like in the OT and you think the RCC is the church Christ is building?
Do you still make incense offerings......
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
The NAB comments: "1,10f: The imperfect sacrifices offered without sincerity by the people of Judah are displeasing to the Lord. He will rather be pleased with the offerings of the Gentile nations throughout the world ('from the rising of the sun even to its setting'), which anticipate the 'pure offering' to be sacrificed in messianic times, the universal sacrifice of the Mass, as we are told by the Council of Trent."
St. Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165) cites Malachi 1:11: “[God] then speaks to those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist” (Dialog with Trypho the Jew, 14).
The Didache
...For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations’ [Mal. 1:11, 14]” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
Manfred
Well-known member
And still you could not understand that Jesus is the High Priest that replaced the need for offerings and sacrifices....
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
And you think the RCC is the church being built by Christ, with your sacrificial rites that ended when He tore the veil......
16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
You think you can please God in the natural........ sad.