The Church vs. The Individual

[Arch Stanton]

And still you could not understand that Jesus is the High Priest that replaced the need for offerings and sacrifices....

Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly: “the Eucharist was regarded as the distinctively Christian sacrifice. . . . Malachi’s prediction (1:10–11) that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have ‘a pure offering’ made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. The Didache indeed actually applies the term thusia, or sacrifice, to the Eucharist.

“It was natural for early Christians to think of the Eucharist as a sacrifice. The fulfillment of prophecy demanded a solemn Christian offering, and the rite itself was wrapped in the sacrificial atmosphere with which our Lord invested the Last Supper. The words of institution, ‘Do this’ (touto poieite), must have been charged with sacrificial overtones for second-century ears; Justin at any rate understood them to mean, ‘Offer this.’ . . . The bread and wine, moreover, are offered ‘for a memorial (eis anamnasin) of the passion,’ a phrase which in view of his identification of them with the Lord’s body and blood implies much more than an act of purely spiritual recollection” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [Full Reference], 196–7).

You think you can please God in the natural........ sad.

What is sad is your feeble attempts to dishonor Christ's Catholic Church.

 

[Manfred]

Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly: “the Eucharist was regarded as the distinctively Christian sacrifice. . . . Malachi’s prediction (1:10–11) that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have ‘a pure offering’ made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. The Didache indeed actually applies the term thusia, or sacrifice, to the Eucharist.

“It was natural for early Christians to think of the Eucharist as a sacrifice. The fulfillment of prophecy demanded a solemn Christian offering, and the rite itself was wrapped in the sacrificial atmosphere with which our Lord invested the Last Supper. The words of institution, ‘Do this’ (touto poieite), must have been charged with sacrificial overtones for second-century ears; Justin at any rate understood them to mean, ‘Offer this.’ . . . The bread and wine, moreover, are offered ‘for a memorial (eis anamnasin) of the passion,’ a phrase which in view of his identification of them with the Lord’s body and blood implies much more than an act of purely spiritual recollection” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [Full Reference], 196–7).

What is sad is your feeble attempts to dishonor Christ's Catholic Church.

And still you cannot accept that Jesus is the High priest that replaced the need for sacrifices and offerings.

These are your evidences that your claim to the Roman church being Christs church is nothing but wishful thinking.

 

[Arch Stanton]

And still you cannot accept that Jesus is the High priest that replaced the need for sacrifices and offerings.

A pure offering Manfred, a PURE OFFERING!

These are your evidences that your claim to the Roman church being Christs church is nothing but wishful thinking.

If you actually read the Bible and the ECF's, you would be Catholic/Orthodox.

 

[Manfred]

A pure offering Manfred, a PURE OFFERING!

If you actually read the Bible and the ECF's, you would be Catholic/Orthodox.

I read the Bible, and the Spirit and not your man made tradition reveals the truth to me.
How can your church have the truth when you do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling you?

The most lonely people are RCC priests. They are forced to adhere to a man made law, and end up condoning sexual sin, whilst condemning the "marriage sacrament"
They think they are pious by not marrying, yet they burn with lust and then have improper sexual relationships, including pedophilia. They think if they go to confession they get absolution, and they carry on. Just like your Popes...
And you think this is the church that Christ is building.........

 

[Arch Stanton]

I read the Bible, and the Spirit and not your man made tradition reveals the truth to me.

Christ is God/man.

How can your church have the truth when you do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling you?

Catholics have the indwelling of the HS AND we are nourished with Christ [body, blood, soul, and divinity]

The most lonely people are RCC priests.

I am not a priest.

They are forced to adhere to a man made law,

God's Church law.... seek Christ Manfred!

 

[Manfred]

Christ is God/man.

And?

Catholics have the indwelling of the HS AND we are nourished with Christ [body, blood, soul, and divinThere ity]

No you don't. There is a nasty spirit whispering in your ear to adore Mary above all else....
You have a nasty spirit whispering that the sanctity of marriage is evil and that your priests who cannot contain their lusts must remain single and when they resort to the most horrendous sexual sin, you put your stamp of approval on it all by saying Christ condones it because He uses sinners... As if marrying and having normal relations is a sin...

Everything you do and condone is against the teachings of scripture and you are so blind, you cannot see it.....

I am not a priest.

God's Church law.... seek Christ Manfred!

Did not think you were a priest. I am trying to show you the errors of your church.
You are so indoctrinated by their nonsense you cannot see the wood for the trees...
Seek Jesus Christ of Nazareth Arch, and let go of Mary and men that cannot save you.

 

[Arch Stanton]

And?

That is where we get our tradition.

No you don't.

I am obedient to Christ... you are following man

Everything you do and condone is against the teachings of scripture and you are so blind, you cannot see it.....

Why do you fight against what Christ gave us? sacraments, etc.

Seek Jesus Christ of Nazareth Arch

I continue to pray that Christ opens your eyes to His Church Manfred!

 

[Mike McK]

What should be the outcome when there is a conflict or disagreement between “the church” and the “individual" about what Scripture teaches?

Depends. Is it an essential doctrine? Is the individual correct? Is the church's doctrine Biblical?

Should the individual submit to the church's interpretation of Scripture or should the church submit to the individual interpretation of Scripture?

If it's an essential, and the church's position is Biblical, then the individual submits to the church. But, because we're not Catholics, we don't believe we shuld submit blindly.

 

[Anselm01]

Depends. Is it an essential doctrine? Is the individual correct? Is the church's doctrine Biblical?

Who decides on the essentials and non-essentials?

If it's an essential, and the church's position is Biblical, then the individual submits to the church. But, because we're not Catholics, we don't believe we shuld submit blindly.

See above. Who decides?

 

[Manfred]

That is where we get our tradition.

You get your tradition from God..... Please prove it....
This is so silly, a grown man should have recognized it.
Your conclusion:
The Apostles all decided to write down only part of what God gave for salvation, they all then decided to just talk about the rest.......

I am obedient to Christ... you are following man

You were the one who admitted you follow your church.
Your church is not Christ.
I know you think that the depraved goings on displayed by priests and bishops and popes over the years are Christ-like, but they really are not Arch.
How can you not see this?

Why do you fight against what Christ gave us? sacraments, etc.

What ever do you mean?
You think I am against the sacrament of marriage like your priests are? Leaving them to become depraved lonely men?
Do you think I am against Biblical baptism that comes after repentance, and not the sprinkling of babies that comes before repentance?
Do you think I am against communion, taken in remembrance of Christ sacrifice that was made once for all, and not a re-sacrifice and eating human flesh again and again by unrepentant sinners?

I continue to pray that Christ opens your eyes to His Church Manfred!

That's what you keep missing Arch. I am in the church Christ is building. I do not need to go into a church built on men who claimed to be in Christ's church, when these so called representative's of Christ displayed their utter depravity to the world.
Why do you condone such an image of Christ?

 

[Arch Stanton]

You get your tradition from God

Indeed

You were the one who admitted you follow your church.

Christ's Church

Your church is not Christ.

It is His Church

Do you think I am against communion, taken in remembrance of Christ sacrifice that was made once for all, and not a re-sacrifice and eating human flesh again and again by unrepentant sinners?

This IS my body.... for MY flesh is true food

That's what you keep missing Arch. I am in the church Christ is building.

in imperfect communion... that ok with you?

 

[Manfred]

Indeed

Christ's Church

It is His Church

This IS my body.... for MY flesh is true food

in imperfect communion... that ok with you?

Lets try this again. I think it is highly dishonest to take something someone says from its context and then claim something else.
Are you such a dishonest person Arch?

Arch Stanton said:
That is where we get our tradition.

You get your tradition from God..... Please prove it....
This is so silly, a grown man should have recognized it.
Your conclusion:
The Apostles all decided to write down only part of what God gave for salvation, they all then decided to just talk about the rest.......

Arch Stanton said:
I am obedient to Christ... you are following man

You were the one who admitted you follow your church.
Your church is not Christ.
I know you think that the depraved goings on displayed by priests and bishops and popes over the years are Christ-like, but they really are not Arch.
How can you not see this?

Arch Stanton said:
Why do you fight against what Christ gave us? sacraments, etc.

What ever do you mean?
You think I am against the sacrament of marriage like your priests are? Leaving them to become depraved lonely men?
Do you think I am against Biblical baptism that comes after repentance, and not the sprinkling of babies that comes before repentance?
Do you think I am against communion, taken in remembrance of Christ sacrifice that was made once for all, and not a re-sacrifice and eating human flesh again and again by unrepentant sinners?

Arch Stanton said:
I continue to pray that Christ opens your eyes to His Church Manfred!

That's what you keep missing Arch. I am in the church Christ is building. I do not need to go into a church built on men who claimed to be in Christ's church, when these so called representative's of Christ displayed their utter depravity to the world.
Why do you condone such an image of Christ?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Are you such a dishonest person Arch?

Nope... you have been dishonest in how YOU represent Christ's Catholic Church though

You get your tradition from God

His Church does, not me

Your church is not Christ.

Great biblical proof on your part 🤣

I know you think that the depraved goings on displayed by priests and bishops and popes over the years are Christ-like,

You continue to speak for me and continue to get it wrong

 

[Manfred]

Nope... you have been dishonest in how YOU represent Christ's Catholic Church though

His Church does, not me

Great biblical proof on your part 🤣

You continue to speak for me and continue to get it wrong

And still you are dishonest.

You just proved it again. These are traits seen throughout the corrupt history of the RCC and they smile and think God approves!
You should be ashamed

 

[Arch Stanton]

And still you are dishonest.

You are indeed, even after proof over the past few pages has been posted

These are traits seen throughout the corrupt history

of your man-made ecclesial community ... you should be more than ashamed of your behavior here!!!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What should be the outcome when there is a conflict or disagreement between “the church” and the “individual" about what Scripture teaches? Should the individual submit to the church's interpretation of Scripture or should the church submit to the individual interpretation of Scripture? Or should the individual leave the church if no agreement can be reached?

1 john 2:27 -
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Visible Churches teach THEIR OWN PARADIGMS about what the Bible says. In some cases what they teach is Biblical truth, and in some cases it's Interpretational horse manure. If a person isn't familiar with what the Bible says, then they're RIPE for false doctrine and deception - sometimes fatal.

The the size, or age of the Religious corporation (denomination) isn't any real protection against being taught a LIE. The Catholic denominations prove that in spades, and ROMAN Catholics are the first "Protestants".

The old saying was: If you're sitting on a block of ICE, then as long as the Ice is MELTING under you, it's O.K. BUT when your posterior begins to FREEZE - it's time to go.

 

[Anselm01]

1 john 2:27 -
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Visible Churches teach THEIR OWN PARADIGMS about what the Bible says. In some cases what they teach is Biblical truth, and in some cases it's Interpretational horse manure. If a person isn't familiar with what the Bible says, then they're RIPE for false doctrine and deception - sometimes fatal.

How do you determine what the Bible says? How do you know you are not the one deceived?

The the size, or age of the Religious corporation (denomination) isn't any real protection against being taught a LIE. The Catholic denominations prove that in spades, and ROMAN Catholics are the first "Protestants".

What evidence do you have that shows the Catholic Church are the first "Protestants?" Is this a claim in no need of evidence?

The old saying was: If you're sitting on a block of ICE, then as long as the Ice is MELTING under you, it's O.K. BUT when your posterior begins to FREEZE - it's time to go.

Never head of that saying...

 

[Manfred]

You are indeed, even after proof over the past few pages has been posted

of your man-made ecclesial community ... you should be more than ashamed of your behavior here!!!

More proof of you just being a dishonest and false witness bearing false teacher deceived and blinded by the man made institution you call the RCC.

You should be ashamed Arch. You have turned out to be nothing more than a lowly internet troll, not being able to defend your stance, but rather just trying to grandstand.

You have not challenged anything in our conversation, all you do is take snippets out of context and re-post them.
Dishonest troll.....

 

[Arch Stanton]

You have not challenged anything in our conversation

post 215 says it all [CCC 1330] .... You lied 🤥 about what the Catholic Church teaches... go back and reread.

Shameful!!! 😞😒

 

[Manfred]

post 215 says it all [CCC 1330] .... You lied 🤥 about what the Catholic Church teaches... go back and reread.

Shameful!!! 😞😒

I already showed you I did not lie.
You contradict yourself and offer up Christ every occasion you get and call me a liar because you contradict yourself.

But that's OK. Carry on pretending that you are not sacrificing Christ in your Eucharist. If it is His real presence, then you are certainly killing Him again every time you eat Him.