And this is different from each individual Protestant being the final say on what is and what is not "biblical." Remember, God's perfect context in reading the Bible is whatever you think it is. At least the pope has apostolic succession. You got nothing.
The Church vs. The Individual
- Thread starter Anselm01
- Start date
BJ Bear
Well-known member
Apart from your misinterpretation of Scripture and it's right interpretation according to it's God given perfect immediate context, it is clear from Scripture and history that the Roman Pope has nothing more or less than every other wild eyed fanatic or cultist who thinks he has swallowed the Holy Spirit, feathers and all.
Careful, you may come off as brash.
I am still waiting on that definition of "God given perfect immediate context." As far as I can tell it is whatever you want it to be...
BJ Bear
Well-known member
Just an observation based on his claims and actions throughout the Roman Pope's novel history.
I gave it to you in the other thread, then demonstrated it according to your proposition, but as of yet you haven't responded.
Novel, right...
Can you let me know what thread and post #? I will respond. I may have missed it.
BJ Bear
Well-known member
The Roman Pope's basis is novelty as are the many of the office holders subsequent actions and doctrines. A case in point is that of the post in this thread to which you still haven't responded.
It is the last post in the Difference Between Biblical And False Teaching.
Manfred
Well-known member
How ridiculous.
You think the word of God does not apply to believers.....
But we have at least established that you can only interpret scripture, and that the spiritual truths in scripture is not revealed to you.
Why you keep insisting that applies to me is only you closing your ears and going blah blah blah as you do not believe me when I say the indwelling Holy Spirit reveals the Spiritual truths contained within scripture. These Spiritual truths were not the opinions and interpretations of the Authors of scriptures, but they were inspired by the Spirit and revealed by the Spirit.
You claim that the Borgia Pope succeeded Peter as the pope of God God's Church. That he represented Christ on earth.
By making this claim, you are doing exactly what you are denying above!
You justify his evil acts by saying God used him .... According to your beliefs and not mine, he "was" Christ or the embodiment of Christ.
Justifying his sin by saying God used his sin is blasphemy, as you equate the same to Christ who the Pope represents.
And the ones who meant evil? Were they representing God on earth? Were they born again believers or were they enemies of God....
Your argument is that someone who supposedly represents Christ or who is the true representative of Christ had the exact opposite attributes displayed by Christ as man...
You are so blinded you cannot even see that for those who do such things, there is no place in the Kingdom of God and therefore you pretend he spent some time in purgatory and then he will inherit the Kingdom of God.
"I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
And you think he inherited the kingdom of God.
Are you now a universalist that believes you can do as much evil as you want and God uses you, so he will excuse you and pamper you in heaven for being able to use you!
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory
He can yes. So are you saying the Pope who is the supposed successor of Peter was not born again and the he did not have to display the fruit of the Holy Spirit but his works of evil was as he was lead by the Holy Spirit?Ex opere operato "from the work performed." The Holy Spirit can work through any vessel, regardless of the state of their souls at the time. Sacramentally, a person's individual holiness cannot affect efficacy, as it is a grace that is given by Christ Himself. Efficacy depends on the proper disposition of the person receiving grace, not the person through which the grace is given.
You would have found a home with the Donatists on the 4th to 6th centuries.
Donatism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
You are one confused Padre
You attribute the evil acts of the representative of Christ the so called "Holy" Father, Pope Borgia to the Holy Spirit.
That would be the same as attributing incest and murder to the work of the Holy Spirit.
Manfred
Well-known member
Why contradict yourself then?
NWRT
I already told you that the Holy Spirit indwelling me reveals the Spiritual truths to me, and you already admitted that He does not indwell you but only your "Church" and you think I should pray for "enlightenment"?
What enlightenment would that be?
No. I believe it does, but you are using it wrong.
No, you have not.
Nope. They are your OPINIONS only. I know you want to give your opinions divine authority, but it will not happen as long as you persist in error.
Not how the papacy works.
No.
Nope. The pope is not the "embodiment of Christ" on earth.
Are you talking about the sons of Jacob? You know, one of those sons was Judah (the ancestor of Jesus), btw.
My argument is that God can use sinners. Here is a news flash: you are also a sinner.
Never claimed this.
I have no idea if he did or not.
Nope.
God can do as He pleases.
I am saying God is faithful regardless of our faithlessness.
No. Not how the papacy works.
No. I am done with you. Matthew 10:14.
Manfred
Well-known member
Because I believe the Holy Spirit reveals the Spiritual truths in the Bible while you merely interpret it as the fancy catches you....
And you can discern Spiritual truths in the natural..... I think not. As per your own testimony, you are only able to interpret it the way you want to. There is no Spiritual revelation only self....
"Vicar of Christ (from Latin Vicarius Christi) is a term used in different ways and with different theological connotations throughout history. The original notion of a vicar is as an "earthly representative of Christ", but it's also used in the sense of "person acting as parish priest in place of a real person."[1] The title is now used in Catholicism to refer to the bishops[2] and more specifically was historically used to the Bishop of Rome (the pope). "
Why do you pretend otherwise?
I gave you Judas and Pharaoh as an example, why do you pretend I dd not?
News flash. I am no longer a slave to sin. I have been redeemed by Christ my Lord and Savior, and I am no longer an unredeemed sinner.
I am under grace, as are all other born again believers, and I am not yet perfected, but we are on a journey of sanctification. On this journey our lives change for the better as we walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
Pick up a Bible and read about these things...
If you want to correctly label the Borgia Pope and yourself as unredeemed sinners, go ahead. I will not be lumped into the same mold as you. Where is the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit evidenced in the life of the sinner? Your insistence that the Holy Spirit works through sin is and will remain blasphemy.
You insistently claim that the Holy Spirit uses sinners and they will end up in heaven.
Do you as a Catholic now deny purgatory?
You have no idea?
This proves my point in that you are only able to interpret scripture as the whim takes you.
What do you interpret this to mean:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5)
And you believe it pleases God to sin by ascribing the sin of your depraved Pope as the work of the Holy Spirit.
Your assertion is that the Holy Spirit used the sin of the Borgia Pope. Can you give an example of how it was used?
Of course He is. Do you think He will be unfaithful to His own word?
When He says that people who behave like your Borgia pope behaved will not inherit the Kingdom of God your reaction is you think he may have inherited the Kingdom of God, despite what God said.
And you think that you have been presenting the gospel?
All you have managed to do is to make a feeble attempt to prove your church is the church Jesus Christ is building. It clearly is not. Jesus does not need to use a depraved individual as head of His church, where every atheist can point a finger and say, if that is Christianity, then I am in a good place....
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
No contradiction... life within me [The Eucharist]
Manfred
Well-known member
Sad how you have to be convinced you swallow life and then only temporarily for you have to do it again and again
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
I am sealed once for as long as I have this wretched body with the Holy Spirit.
You are at least consistent in that you admit you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit and receive life temporarily every time you follow a ritualistic belief system.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you DO NOT HAVE LIFE within you
For MY FLESH IS TRUE FOOD, and my blood is true drink.
Manfred
Well-known member
Why do you have to do it repeatedly?
Is life not life?
You should start thinking for yourself...
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
You think He is sacrificed over and over again.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
I would go to a quiet place and ask Christ that question.
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
on your own intelligence do not rely;
In all your ways be mindful of him,
and he will make straight your paths.
on your own intelligence do not rely;
In all your ways be mindful of him,
and he will make straight your paths.
Manfred
Well-known member
You think Jesus is sacrificed over and over and over.....
Why are you trusting in man and not the word of God?
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
You change once for all to over, and over and over again
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Mt 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak.
Eph 3:10 so that the manifold WISDOM of God might now be made known THROUGH the CHURCH to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming.
Manfred
Well-known member
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
go to your quiet place away from the deceiver and pray for wisdom and guidance
Why would I need to be exonerated? I am in Christ's One True Church!
It is quite sad that you believe a bunch of men that were disgruntled with Christ's Catholic Church! THAT is sad!
Manfred
Well-known member
That is why I am staying far away from your false teachings
No you are not
Never said such a thing.
You still think the RCC is built on Peter right? It has nothing to do with Christ...