The Climate Is So Bad..........

Hypatia_Alexandria

Well-known member
Frankly, I'm more concerned by what the Democrats will do/have done to the country, than I am with "Natural Phenomena"
You do realise that the "Natural Phenomena" that you appear to dismiss could see the end of the USA as you have to know it. The economic impact of climate change also has to be considered. The USA will continue as a nation but not in the manner to which the present generation has become accustomed.
 

Hypatia_Alexandria

Well-known member
Political will wont be easy because people are selfish. .. and politics usually has other agendas
Ironically such selfishness will end up condemning their descendants to a live considerably different from the one with which they are currently acquainted.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I disagree. Every time the climate got hot, then cold, then got hot again in the past happened without man being the prime factor. The earth that is basically alive with constant change is the prime factor. You folks have lost it concerning this issue. Man as a species will be long gone, but the planet will still remain, constantly changing.

‘Man-made warming’ demolished in 500 words​

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) three pillars of man-made global warming: collapsed

Dr Roger Higgs​

Here are the three pillars and the disproofs:

Pillar I. Earth’s average surface temperature and man’s CO2 emissions have both risen since 1850, so CO2 must have caused the warming

Five disproofs …

(1) What else has risen? The Sun’s magnetic output, affecting cloudiness (Svensmark), more than doubled from 1901 to 1991 (Lockwood), to its highest peak in 10,000 years (Higgs 1).

In those last 10,000 years …
(2) simple visual cross-correlation shows changes in temperature lagged 60-160 years behind solar-output changes, due to the ocean’s vast heat capacity and slow mixing (Higgs 1, 2)


(3) … temperature and CO2 were uncorrelated, until their joint rise from the late 1800s.

(4) CO2 is still rising (NOAA), but Earth has cooled since 2016 (Met. Office). Every passing day not ‘warmest ever’ for that date, at multiple sites worldwide, embarrasses the IPCC.

(5) Warming since 1910 paused 1945-75 (30 years) and 1998-2012 but CO2 kept rising.

Pillar II. Global warming’s continuance despite the Sun’s weakening after 1991 absolves the Sun and incriminates CO2

Disproof …

This mismatch is simply due to the oceanic time-lag, currently about 60 years. Thus global warming will continue (with ups and downs, mainly due to the Sun’s 11-year cycles) until around 2050, about 60 years after the Sun’s 1991 grand peak (Higgs 2).

Pillar II was asserted in IPCC’s 2013 ‘Fifth Assessment Report’, Chapter 10 (IPCC 1 p.887, co-author Lockwood [see (1) above], citing 4 of his own papers). But IPPC already knew about the lag, Chapter 3 having stated the “ocean’s huge heat capacity and slow circulation lend it significant thermal inertia” (IPCC 2 p.266).


Pillar III. Sea level (SL) for the last few thousand years varied less than 25cm, so the 30cm SL rise since 1850 proves abnormal warming
by CO2

Disproof …

The 25 cm claim (only “medium confidence”; IPCC 3 p.385) is based on selected evidence (Higgs 3) and on dismissal of the famed 1961 SL curve (Fairbridge; Wiki) with SL oscillations of 2 to 5 metres in the last 6,000 years, confirmed by dozens of later geologists worldwide, and lately with very strong archaeological support (Higgs 4, 5, 6).

Conclusions

1. That’s it. That’s all they have. Be surprised.

2. The Sun was by far the main driver of global temperature for the last 10,000 years.

3. CO2 is innocent; it has no climate effect; the simultaneous rise in temperature and CO2 is pure accident; CO2’s residual ‘greenhouse effect’ is effectively nil (Higgs 7, 8).


4. The IPCC urgently needs to consult geologists (Higgs 9, 10).

5. Another Sun-driven large sea-level rise is predictable (Higgs 11).

Dr Roger Higgs (DPhil Oxford, geology, 1982-86)
Geoclastica Ltd Technical Note 2020-7
25th May 2020, amended 26-5-2020

References
All contributions by Higgs (me) are very brief

edit link violation
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Misfit

Well-known member

‘Man-made warming’ demolished in 500 words​

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) three pillars of man-made global warming: collapsed

Dr Roger Higgs​

Here are the three pillars and the disproofs:

Pillar I. Earth’s average surface temperature and man’s CO2 emissions have both risen since 1850, so CO2 must have caused the warming

Five disproofs …

(1) What else has risen? The Sun’s magnetic output, affecting cloudiness (Svensmark), more than doubled from 1901 to 1991 (Lockwood), to its highest peak in 10,000 years (Higgs 1).

In those last 10,000 years …
(2) simple visual cross-correlation shows changes in temperature lagged 60-160 years behind solar-output changes, due to the ocean’s vast heat capacity and slow mixing (Higgs 1, 2)


(3) … temperature and CO2 were uncorrelated, until their joint rise from the late 1800s.

(4) CO2 is still rising (NOAA), but Earth has cooled since 2016 (Met. Office). Every passing day not ‘warmest ever’ for that date, at multiple sites worldwide, embarrasses the IPCC.

(5) Warming since 1910 paused 1945-75 (30 years) and 1998-2012 but CO2 kept rising.

Pillar II. Global warming’s continuance despite the Sun’s weakening after 1991 absolves the Sun and incriminates CO2

Disproof …

This mismatch is simply due to the oceanic time-lag, currently about 60 years. Thus global warming will continue (with ups and downs, mainly due to the Sun’s 11-year cycles) until around 2050, about 60 years after the Sun’s 1991 grand peak (Higgs 2).

Pillar II was asserted in IPCC’s 2013 ‘Fifth Assessment Report’, Chapter 10 (IPCC 1 p.887, co-author Lockwood [see (1) above], citing 4 of his own papers). But IPPC already knew about the lag, Chapter 3 having stated the “ocean’s huge heat capacity and slow circulation lend it significant thermal inertia” (IPCC 2 p.266).


Pillar III. Sea level (SL) for the last few thousand years varied less than 25cm, so the 30cm SL rise since 1850 proves abnormal warming
by CO2

Disproof …

The 25 cm claim (only “medium confidence”; IPCC 3 p.385) is based on selected evidence (Higgs 3) and on dismissal of the famed 1961 SL curve (Fairbridge; Wiki) with SL oscillations of 2 to 5 metres in the last 6,000 years, confirmed by dozens of later geologists worldwide, and lately with very strong archaeological support (Higgs 4, 5, 6).

Conclusions

1. That’s it. That’s all they have. Be surprised.

2. The Sun was by far the main driver of global temperature for the last 10,000 years.

3. CO2 is innocent; it has no climate effect; the simultaneous rise in temperature and CO2 is pure accident; CO2’s residual ‘greenhouse effect’ is effectively nil (Higgs 7, 8).


4. The IPCC urgently needs to consult geologists (Higgs 9, 10).

5. Another Sun-driven large sea-level rise is predictable (Higgs 11).

Dr Roger Higgs (DPhil Oxford, geology, 1982-86)
Geoclastica Ltd Technical Note 2020-7
25th May 2020, amended 26-5-2020

References
All contributions by Higgs (me) are very brief

edit
Well done, but the climate pests (fanatics) will never accept that truth. It's not really about the climate, it's about the control they want over everyone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hypatia_Alexandria

Well-known member

‘Man-made warming’ demolished in 500 words​

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) three pillars of man-made global warming: collapsed

Dr Roger Higgs​

Here are the three pillars and the disproofs:

Pillar I. Earth’s average surface temperature and man’s CO2 emissions have both risen since 1850, so CO2 must have caused the warming

Five disproofs …

(1) What else has risen? The Sun’s magnetic output, affecting cloudiness (Svensmark), more than doubled from 1901 to 1991 (Lockwood), to its highest peak in 10,000 years (Higgs 1).

In those last 10,000 years …
(2) simple visual cross-correlation shows changes in temperature lagged 60-160 years behind solar-output changes, due to the ocean’s vast heat capacity and slow mixing (Higgs 1, 2)


(3) … temperature and CO2 were uncorrelated, until their joint rise from the late 1800s.

(4) CO2 is still rising (NOAA), but Earth has cooled since 2016 (Met. Office). Every passing day not ‘warmest ever’ for that date, at multiple sites worldwide, embarrasses the IPCC.

(5) Warming since 1910 paused 1945-75 (30 years) and 1998-2012 but CO2 kept rising.

Pillar II. Global warming’s continuance despite the Sun’s weakening after 1991 absolves the Sun and incriminates CO2

Disproof …

This mismatch is simply due to the oceanic time-lag, currently about 60 years. Thus global warming will continue (with ups and downs, mainly due to the Sun’s 11-year cycles) until around 2050, about 60 years after the Sun’s 1991 grand peak (Higgs 2).

Pillar II was asserted in IPCC’s 2013 ‘Fifth Assessment Report’, Chapter 10 (IPCC 1 p.887, co-author Lockwood [see (1) above], citing 4 of his own papers). But IPPC already knew about the lag, Chapter 3 having stated the “ocean’s huge heat capacity and slow circulation lend it significant thermal inertia” (IPCC 2 p.266).


Pillar III. Sea level (SL) for the last few thousand years varied less than 25cm, so the 30cm SL rise since 1850 proves abnormal warming
by CO2

Disproof …

The 25 cm claim (only “medium confidence”; IPCC 3 p.385) is based on selected evidence (Higgs 3) and on dismissal of the famed 1961 SL curve (Fairbridge; Wiki) with SL oscillations of 2 to 5 metres in the last 6,000 years, confirmed by dozens of later geologists worldwide, and lately with very strong archaeological support (Higgs 4, 5, 6).

Conclusions

1. That’s it. That’s all they have. Be surprised.

2. The Sun was by far the main driver of global temperature for the last 10,000 years.

3. CO2 is innocent; it has no climate effect; the simultaneous rise in temperature and CO2 is pure accident; CO2’s residual ‘greenhouse effect’ is effectively nil (Higgs 7, 8).


4. The IPCC urgently needs to consult geologists (Higgs 9, 10).

5. Another Sun-driven large sea-level rise is predictable (Higgs 11).

Dr Roger Higgs (DPhil Oxford, geology, 1982-86)
Geoclastica Ltd Technical Note 2020-7
25th May 2020, amended 26-5-2020

References
All contributions by Higgs (me) are very brief
And from his CV just look at his background and his clients:


Petroleum Explorationist, Canada: (5 years) 1977-78, Imperial Oil Ltd (Exxon), Calgary. Exploration Geologist. 1 year of diverse training, incl. a 6-month seismic interpretation project (Labrador Sea)

1978-82, Aquitaine Co. of Canada Ltd & successor Canterra Energy Ltd, Calgary. Exploration Geologist, rising to Exploration Supervisor, Peace River Arch District, supervising 2 geologists, 2 geophysicists, 1 technician

1982-1986 Doctoral research, Department of Geology, University of Oxford, UK. (4 years) Thesis: 'A Facies Analysis of the Bude Formation (Lr Westphalian), SW England’ Supervisor: Dr Harold G. Reading

1987-present Consultant in clastic sedimentology & sequence stratigraphy. Founder, managing (30 years) director & sole employee of consultancy Geoclastica Ltd, UK, registered 1998 http://www.geoclastica.com/

Clients: Beicip-Franlab; BHP; British Columbia Ministry of Energy; Canadian Petroleum; Chevron; Ecopetrol; Elf; Emerald; Finavera; Geoquest; Geological Survey of Canada (2 yrs); IFP; Intera; Jordan NPC; Mobil; Noble; Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA, incl. 3 yrs in Caracas 1990-93 & twelve 5-week visits to Puerto La Cruz 2010-12); PetroSA; Polish Oil & Gas Institute; Preussag; Repsol; Schlumberger; Talisman; Tectonic Analysis Inc
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Furion

Well-known member
Ironically such selfishness will end up condemning their descendants to a live considerably different from the one with which they are currently acquainted.

We will live like the Jetsons man, no need to worry.

The government's of the white world have already banned gas cars in the near future, it's all under control.

Right above India and China will be a little hellish, sure, but above 'murica and europa will be clean skies and stuff.
 

christ_undivided

Well-known member
And from his CV just look at his background and his clients:


Petroleum Explorationist, Canada: (5 years) 1977-78, Imperial Oil Ltd (Exxon), Calgary. Exploration Geologist. 1 year of diverse training, incl. a 6-month seismic interpretation project (Labrador Sea)

1978-82, Aquitaine Co. of Canada Ltd & successor Canterra Energy Ltd, Calgary. Exploration Geologist, rising to Exploration Supervisor, Peace River Arch District, supervising 2 geologists, 2 geophysicists, 1 technician

1982-1986 Doctoral research, Department of Geology, University of Oxford, UK. (4 years) Thesis: 'A Facies Analysis of the Bude Formation (Lr Westphalian), SW England’ Supervisor: Dr Harold G. Reading

1987-present Consultant in clastic sedimentology & sequence stratigraphy. Founder, managing (30 years) director & sole employee of consultancy Geoclastica Ltd, UK, registered 1998 http://www.geoclastica.com/

Clients: Beicip-Franlab; BHP; British Columbia Ministry of Energy; Canadian Petroleum; Chevron; Ecopetrol; Elf; Emerald; Finavera; Geoquest; Geological Survey of Canada (2 yrs); IFP; Intera; Jordan NPC; Mobil; Noble; Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA, incl. 3 yrs in Caracas 1990-93 & twelve 5-week visits to Puerto La Cruz 2010-12); PetroSA; Polish Oil & Gas Institute; Preussag; Repsol; Schlumberger; Talisman; Tectonic Analysis Inc

Guilt by association nonsense. Can't deal with the claims.... so you attack the persons.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
You do realise that the "Natural Phenomena" that you appear to dismiss could see the end of the USA as you have to know it.
Old news. The USA as I knew it 65 years ago is already gone. and Natural Phenomena (like Ice ages, and supposed "human caused Global worming") has had nothing to do with it. Hey - It just gives the media and the "experts" something to obsess, and squall impotently about. you can take them seriously if that lights your fire.
The economic impact of climate change also has to be considered. The USA will continue as a nation but not in the manner to which the present generation has become accustomed.
And the Democratic party system and their "handlers" at present are making sure of that. Political systems never really do last - for whatever the cause. And this dirt ball is scheduled for destruction anyway.

BUT HEY!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! We'r all gonna die (HORRIBLY - maybe). In the meantime, I think I'll get some lunch.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
I do - if they ask.

But since neither of us (Nor anybody else) can actually do anything about it, Dinner becomes much more important, relatively speaking. Why don't you ask Biden (or Trump, or Putin, or Kim Jong Un, or the Pope) what HIS plan to save us is??? That'll solve the problem, I'm sure.
 
Last edited:

shnarkle

Well-known member
Well done, but the climate pests (fanatics) will never accept that truth. It's not really about the climate, it's about the control they want over everyone.
Looking at ice core samples, we see a regular cycle of warming and cooling. The only thing human beings are doing is causing that peak in the cycle to hit a few years, maybe a decade or so earlier than if we weren't here. Even if it were a hundred or a thousand years earlier than normal, there is no effective difference. It's inevitable regardless of what we do.
 

inertia

Super Member
I do not know about you but the words head, brick and wall come to mind regarding the attitudes of some in these exchanges:eek::ROFLMAO:

Fundamentally, the physics of infrared radiative transfer eventually dominates the sway of any political bias - every time. Even ExxonMobil has finally admitted to funding climate change denial propaganda and the energy company might help to reverse the ongoing trend. I have a wait-and-see attitude here. Clearly, Putin and Saudi Arabia doesn't want Europe's addition to diminish.

"From the 1980s to mid 2000s, the company was a leader in climate change denial, opposing regulations to curtail global warming. ExxonMobil funded organizations critical of the Kyoto Protocol K and sought to undermine public opinion about the scientific consensus that global warming is caused by the burning of fossil fuels."

___
 

inertia

Super Member

...​


Dr Roger Higgs​

Here are the three pillars and the disproofs:

Pillar I. Earth’s average surface temperature and man’s CO2 emissions have both risen since 1850, so CO2 must have caused the warming

...

Maybe you can help me out here. One would think that an expert in climate change, Dr. Roger Higgs, should regularly publish in the journal Nature climate change. I couldn't find one publication by him in that journal.

I also tried to find one paper where Roger Higgs was an author in a number of journals that specialize in climate change. Roger wasn't in any of them.

- Nature Sustainability
- Current Climate Change Reports
- npj Climate and Atmospheric Science
- PLOS Climate
- Nature Geoscience
- Geosciences, special issue, Global Climate Change and Geological Processes
- Springer, Climate Change
- The American Physical Society (APS)

From the APS:

"Much of the public debate over climate change has confused the issue of detection of climate change with the inevitability of climate change. The consensus of the scientific community is clear: increasing emissions of greenhouse gases will inevitably cause the levels of greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere to rise, which will change the Earth's climate. While the inevitability of climate change is generally accepted, the magnitude and nature of these changes are still uncertain.

While anthropogenic climate change has not been unambiguously detected, the evidence for a human effect on climate is mounting. The surface temperature of the earth has risen by about half a degree centigrade over the last century. This rate of change is similar in magnitude to natural climate changes but also well within the range of the possible effects of the historical rise in greenhouse gas concentrations.

Unambiguously detecting climate change through the record of global mean temperature is not possible at this point since, while we may detect warming we cannot uniquely attribute a general warming to anthropogenic influence. Fingerprint detection is a more promising technique. This scheme involves using GCMs to identify distinctive spatial patterns caused by anthropogenic influence. A number of studies using this technique have recently found evidence of human influence on climate. These studies, plus other changes in weather and temperature patterns, lead working group I of the IPCC to conclude that, while there still many uncertainties, the balance of evidence suggests that there is a discernible human influence on global climate."

___
 
Last edited:

christ_undivided

Well-known member
Maybe you can help me out here. One would think that an expert in climate change, Dr. Roger Higgs, should regularly publish in the journal Nature climate change. I couldn't find one publication by him in that journal.

Who appointed "Nature Climate Change" as the sole authority on the subject?

False Dichotomy.

It seems you're not familiar with the simplest of logical fallacies.


I also tried to find one paper where Roger Higgs was an author in a number of journals that specialize in climate change. Roger wasn't in any of them.

- Nature Sustainability
- Current Climate Change Reports
- npj Climate and Atmospheric Science
- PLOS Climate
- Nature Geoscience
- Geosciences, special issue, Global Climate Change and Geological Processes
- Springer, Climate Change
- The American Physical Society (APS)

False Dichotomy.

Get familiar with the term. That is what people like you do. You try to limit authority sources to the ones you approve.

From the APS:

"Much of the public debate over climate change has confused the issue of detection of climate change with the inevitability of climate change. The consensus of the scientific community is clear: increasing emissions of greenhouse gases will inevitably cause the levels of greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere to rise, which will change the Earth's climate. While the inevitability of climate change is generally accepted, the magnitude and nature of these changes are still uncertain.

While anthropogenic climate change has not been unambiguously detected, the evidence for a human effect on climate is mounting. The surface temperature of the earth has risen by about half a degree centigrade over the last century. This rate of change is similar in magnitude to natural climate changes but also well within the range of the possible effects of the historical rise in greenhouse gas concentrations.

Unambiguously detecting climate change through the record of global mean temperature is not possible at this point since, while we may detect warming we cannot uniquely attribute a general warming to anthropogenic influence. Fingerprint detection is a more promising technique. This scheme involves using GCMs to identify distinctive spatial patterns caused by anthropogenic influence. A number of studies using this technique have recently found evidence of human influence on climate. These studies, plus other changes in weather and temperature patterns, lead working group I of the IPCC to conclude that, while there still many uncertainties, the balance of evidence suggests that there is a discernible human influence on global climate."

Again. It is impossible to know this given the many different influences upon our climate. This statement is an distraction. It seeks to present a "reasonable" sense of ambiguity while still demanding the same solution.

___
 
Top