The context of 1 John 1:1 proves that trins are in error about 1 John 5:20

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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

Notice the bold in black above and what John calls Jesus and also notice that John is speaking of two referents here and not just one and those referents are the Father (The Only True God as per John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20) and the Son whom John here calls "The Eternal life that was with the Father".


Now lets return to 1 John 5:20 and see how the precedent and context of 1 John 1:1-3 makes it very obvious that when John says "This is the True God and Eternal life" he is speaking of two referents, The Father who is "him who is True, and the Son of him who is true and who John is referring to as "The Eternal life".

It really should be obvious that John is not calling Jesus the True God here being he already identified him as "His Son" by whom we are in him who is True and with is the Father period.


1 John 5:20

New King James Version

​

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.




So then, John is summing up what he wrote in the first chapter and he is revealing two referents here, the Father who is the True God and His Son Jesus Christ who John calls the Eternal life.


Therefore all that John is saying in 1 John 5:20, is that we are in the True God and Father through also being in the Son whom he calls the Eternal Life of the believer.

Now, why do you suppose that John is calling Jesus the Eternal life?


It is because the only way that we can have God's Eternal life, is through Jesus and his death on the cross for our sins and because God gave Jesus that Eternal life to live by and also to give unto all who believe and just as Jesus himself said in John 5:26 and John 6:57 as is very clearly seen below.

John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,


John 6:57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
This is the True God and Eternal life
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Both are in reference to Jesus.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/based-on-grammar-and-context-jesus-is-the-true-god-in-1-john-5-20.8931/#post-635107

To whom does John refer the following pronouns and titles to?
1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:19 (Him)
1 John 3:23 (He)
1 John 3:24 (His; Him; He X3)
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
3 John 1:7 (Name)
 
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Fred said:
Both are in reference to Jesus.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/based-on-grammar-and-context-jesus-is-the-true-god-in-1-john-5-20.8931/#post-635107

To whom does John refer the following pronouns and titles to?
1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:19 (Him)
1 John 3:23 (He)
1 John 3:24 (His; Him; He X3)
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
3 John 1:7 (Name)
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LOL, the rumblings of a true typical trin mesmerized by the quackery and false traditions of the Romanized cult from which the Catholic Church also sprung up.

We are not discussing those passages but we are discussing 1 John 5:20 and the context and precedent in 1 John 1:1-3 where John specifically called Jesus "The Eternal life that was with the Father".

Therefore it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see that just like 1 John 1:1-3 speaks of both the Father and the Son, so it is likewise with 1 John 5:20 when John finishes by saying "this is the True God and Eternal life" he is speaking of the Father as him who is true or the True God and Jesus his Son whom John already identified in the letter as the Eternal life that was with the Father in John 1:1-3.

Sorry but John in 1 John 5:20 very clearly calls only the Father by the words "him who is true" and then tells us that we are in him who is true by being also in his Son, very clearly therefore the Son cannot be who he is referring to as "him who is true" and any simpleton should be able to see this also, so why can't you?
 
Fred said:
Both are in reference to Jesus.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/based-on-grammar-and-context-jesus-is-the-true-god-in-1-john-5-20.8931/#post-635107

To whom does John refer the following pronouns and titles to?
1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:19 (Him)
1 John 3:23 (He)
1 John 3:24 (His; Him; He X3)
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
3 John 1:7 (Name)
Click to expand...
Who is John calling the Father in 1 John 1:1-3 and who is he calling him who is true in 1 John 5:20?

It certainly isn't the "his Son" for that wouldn't even make the slightest bit of sense at all.

Therefore either you believe that the Father and the Son are the same person and which is most absurd, or he is speaking of two referents in his last words, "one the Father as him who is True and the True God and the other as Jesus his Son who John has already identified as the Eternal Life that was with the Father in 1 John 1:1-3.

Anyway you want to argue it, your doctrine on this is a sinking ship.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
Who is John calling the Father in 1 John 1:1-3 and who is he calling him who is true in 1 John 5:20?

It certainly isn't the "his Son" for that wouldn't even make the slightest bit of sense at all.

Therefore either you believe that the Father and the Son are the same person and which is most absurd, or he is speaking of two referents in his last words, "one the Father as him who is True and the True God and the other as Jesus his Son who John has already identified as the Eternal Life that was with the Father in 1 John 1:1-3.

Anyway you want to argue it, your doctrine on this is a sinking ship.
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Strawman. Father and Son are NOT the same Person, but are the SAME God.
 
Fred said:
Almost all of those passages have a pronoun in them just like 1 John 5:20. You want to dodge this issue.
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So what? That doesn't mean that the Father is not referred to in many passages in John's letter also.

The fact is and remains, that in the opening chapter of 1 John, John very clearly reveals Jesus as "The Eternal life that was with the Father" and the fact also remains that in 1 John 5:20 John is summing up what he had intended us to know about why Jesus came and it was to reveal the Father unto us and also to bring us to the Father that we might know him.
 
Fred said:
The Lord Jesus is the "true God."
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Sorry but your view then contradicts Jesus' own words in John 17:3 and mine agrees 100 % with what he said.

John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they might know you, The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

This by itself reveals how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 but I have already revealed by John's own words in the very first chapter that you are twisting it, nevertheless, it is not given to apostates and outsiders to know the truth but only to God's true elect who are honest with his words.
 
Fred said:
The Lord Jesus is the "true God."

You are still dodging the passages in post.

Why are you scared?
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LOL, I am not scared of anything concerning this because I know what the truth is about it and neither am I a sucker for the false doctrines and traditions of men like you are either.
 
Fred said:
https://forums.carm.org/threads/john-17-3-does-not-disprove-jesus-is-god.7434/#post-504264

Thanks for making this easy for me.
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Huh, sorry but the contrast here isn't between Jesus and the Father but between Jesus and those who were sneaking into the church and teaching contrary to what Jesus taught and being God gave Jesus to be the head of the church and not these other false teachers.

Jesus is therefore "the only despotes" appointed by God for the church and not these other false teachers who were denying him as that "despotes".

Furthermore, everything that God has to say to us, he now only says through his Son and Jesus himself said better than three different times that he only speaks what God gives him to speak and nothing of his own words.

Learn the scriptures and get free of Mystery Babylon!
 
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Yahweh will increase said:
Sorry but your view then contradicts Jesus' own words in John 17:3 and mine agrees 100 % with what he said.

John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they might know you, The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

This by itself reveals how you are twisting 1 John 5:20 but I have already revealed by John's own words in the very first chapter that you are twisting it, nevertheless, it is not given to apostates and outsiders to know the truth but only to God's true elect who are honest with his words.
Click to expand...
And we are IN HIM who is true, The SON. HE is the TRUE God.
 
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