The Death of Judas

Gods Spirit in them...Which is nothing but pure gnosticism.

There is no peace for the agnostics, the gnostics are content to have Gods Spirit in us. Jesus was content to have the same Spirit in him.
And believers are content to have Jesus. "No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23
 
JonHawk:
And we ourselves have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:13-15
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God; 1 John 5
You who believe in Christ Jesus are the children of God and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
Have nothing to do with barren, unfruitful gnostics who are shortsighted, even to blindness, and have forgotten that Christ's death on the cross cleanses from sin. 2 Peter 1:9
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

Let's see, you adamantly insist that is not based on what anyone believes; you have every intention of rejecting redemption
freely granted through the Son of God;
Come here gnostics, you sons of a sorceress; Who are you mocking, you rebellious brood of liars?
I will expose your self righteous deeds, And they will not benefit you.
I Create the fruit of praise;
Peace, peace to him who is far away and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord; But there is no peace, for the gnostic.
Gary Mac said:
Gods Spirit in them...Which is nothing but pure gnosticism.
There is no peace for the agnostics, the gnostics are content to have Gods Spirit in us. Jesus was content to have the same Spirit in him.
You just do not believe that Jesus was Gods son...
"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23
 
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Bible critics and skeptics love to point out discrepancies in the Bible. One alleged contradiction is that of the differing accounts of the death of Judas. One version of the death of Judas comes from Matthew 27:5:

The other version is found in Acts 1:18:
Might just be a "time factor": Judas hanged himself, and after a while he simply decomposed, and fell to the ground, bursting open in the fall, so both accounts are accurate, but chronologically displaced. Simple as that.
 
And believers are content to have Jesus.


"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Amen and I am His son, cant know the Father at all least you are His son.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23
He did say come to me, but you are trying to get him to come to you someday.
 
JonHawk:
And we ourselves have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:13-15
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God; 1 John 5
You who believe in Christ Jesus are the children of God and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
Have nothing to do with barren, unfruitful gnostics who are shortsighted, even to blindness, and have forgotten that Christ's death on the cross cleanses from sin. 2 Peter 1:9
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

Let's see, you adamantly insist that is not based on what anyone believes; you have every intention of rejecting redemption
freely granted through the Son of God;
Come here gnostics, you sons of a sorceress; Who are you mocking, you rebellious brood of liars?
I will expose your self righteous deeds, And they will not benefit you.
I Create the fruit of praise;
Peace, peace to him who is far away and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord; But there is no peace, for the gnostic.
Gary Mac said:
Gods Spirit in them...Which is nothing but pure gnosticism.
There is no peace for the agnostics, the gnostics are content to have Gods Spirit in us. Jesus was content to have the same Spirit in him.
You just do not believe that Jesus was Gods son...
"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23
Amen and I am His son, cant know the Father at all least you are His son.
He did say come to me, but you are trying to get him to come to you someday.
Why would someone wait for what he already has? Rom 8:24
There is now no distinction in regard to salvation for you who believe are all one in Christ Jesus; according to God's promise. Gal 3:28-29
 
JonHawk:
And we ourselves have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:13-15
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God; 1 John 5
You who believe in Christ Jesus are the children of God and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
Have nothing to do with barren, unfruitful gnostics who are shortsighted, even to blindness, and have forgotten that Christ's death on the cross cleanses from sin. 2 Peter 1:9
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

Let's see, you adamantly insist that is not based on what anyone believes; you have every intention of rejecting redemption
freely granted through the Son of God;
Come here gnostics, you sons of a sorceress; Who are you mocking, you rebellious brood of liars?
I will expose your self righteous deeds, And they will not benefit you.
I Create the fruit of praise;
Peace, peace to him who is far away and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord; But there is no peace, for the gnostic.

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23

Why would someone wait for what he already has? Rom 8:24
There is now no distinction in regard to salvation for you who believe are all one in Christ Jesus; according to God's promise. Gal 3:28-29
Why do you wait that you cant comprehend His ways to be like Him? It is because of the pharisee mentality that accuses God and Jesus in their ways a gnostic lies.
 
JonHawk:
And we ourselves have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:13-15
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God; 1 John 5
You who believe in Christ Jesus are the children of God and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
Have nothing to do with barren, unfruitful gnostics who are shortsighted, even to blindness, and have forgotten that Christ's death on the cross cleanses from sin. 2 Peter 1:9
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

Let's see, you adamantly insist that is not based on what anyone believes; you have every intention of rejecting redemption
freely granted through the Son of God;
Come here gnostics, you sons of a sorceress; Who are you mocking, you rebellious brood of liars?
I will expose your self righteous deeds, And they will not benefit you.
I Create the fruit of praise;
Peace, peace to him who is far away and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord; But there is no peace, for the gnostic.

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23

Why would someone wait for what he already has? Rom 8:24
There is now no distinction in regard to salvation for you who believe are all one in Christ Jesus; according to God's promise. Gal 3:28-29
Why do you wait that you cant comprehend His ways to be like Him? It is because of the pharisee mentality that accuses God and Jesus in their ways a gnostic lies.
In Jesus Christ is life and the life is the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the gnostics did not comprehend it.
 
Matthew and Luke were contemporaries, both Christian, both in the same area of the world...
That is correct.
...to assume that they knew nothing about what the other wrote is a stretch.
I suppose so, but I never said they knew nothing about what the other wrote. Earlier you said: "They read each other's accounts." I stated that we have no evidence for that conclusion. I do think that both authors were obviously familiar with the general beliefs of the Christians of their day. So any similarity between the works of Matthew and Luke can be attributed at least in part to those common beliefs.
Also the fact that Luke interviewed those who had witnessed the events, makes a high probability that he Read Matthew's words and even talked to Matthew.
For what it's worth, most Bible scholars have concluded that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are not based on each other but on the Gospel of Mark and a "lost gospel Q." If this hypothesis is correct, then Matthew and Luke didn't read each other's works.
In that context, it is easier to guess what happened with the different accounts.
How does it follow that the broken-rope story follows from Matthew and Luke reading each other's works even if they did so?

I should point out that Luke didn't actually write an account of the death of Judas but quoted a sermon he wrote that Peter delivered. In other words, the story of Judas dying by disembowelment in Acts was Peter's account rather than Luke's account. As such, the disembowelment story becomes even more peculiar because Peter surely would have known that Judas hanged himself if Judas did hang himself.
 
That is correct.

I suppose so, but I never said they knew nothing about what the other wrote. Earlier you said: "They read each other's accounts." I stated that we have no evidence for that conclusion. I do think that both authors were obviously familiar with the general beliefs of the Christians of their day. So any similarity between the works of Matthew and Luke can be attributed at least in part to those common beliefs.

For what it's worth, most Bible scholars have concluded that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are not based on each other but on the Gospel of Mark and a "lost gospel Q." If this hypothesis is correct, then Matthew and Luke didn't read each other's works.

A scenario like this is far more likely. If Matthew and Luke were comparing notes there wouldn't be so many discrepancies between the two. And there are many.

How does it follow that the broken-rope story follows from Matthew and Luke reading each other's works even if they did so?

That would be an absurd proposition. But there are many here who are willing to shamelessly promote their absurd imaginations.

I should point out that Luke didn't actually write an account of the death of Judas but quoted a sermon he wrote that Peter delivered. In other words, the story of Judas dying by disembowelment in Acts was Peter's account rather than Luke's account. As such, the disembowelment story becomes even more peculiar because Peter surely would have known that Judas hanged himself if Judas did hang himself.

18 With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field, there he [he hung himself and then the rope broke and he] fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this

Absurd.

Additionally, this is the real point:

18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
 
JonHawk:
And we ourselves have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. 1 John 4:13-15
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God; 1 John 5
You who believe in Christ Jesus are the children of God and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
Have nothing to do with barren, unfruitful gnostics who are shortsighted, even to blindness, and have forgotten that Christ's death on the cross cleanses from sin. 2 Peter 1:9
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:18

Let's see, you adamantly insist that is not based on what anyone believes; you have every intention of rejecting redemption
freely granted through the Son of God;
Come here gnostics, you sons of a sorceress; Who are you mocking, you rebellious brood of liars?
I will expose your self righteous deeds, And they will not benefit you.
I Create the fruit of praise;
Peace, peace to him who is far away and to him who is near,”
Says the Lord; But there is no peace, for the gnostic.

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me and you will find rest for your souls." Matt 11:27-29 Through Him we believe in God, who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory; Having purified your souls through the word of God which lives and abides forever; 1 Peter 1:21-23

Why would someone wait for what he already has? Rom 8:24
There is now no distinction in regard to salvation for you who believe are all one in Christ Jesus; according to God's promise. Gal 3:28-29
Gary Mac said:
Why do you wait that you cant comprehend His ways to be like Him? It is because of the pharisee mentality that accuses God and Jesus in their ways a gnostic lies.
In Jesus Christ is life and the life is the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the gnostics did not comprehend it.

Gary Mac: Amen and I am His son, cant know the Father at all least you are His son.

That is quite true. You must be begotten of the Father who truly abides in those who are born of Him.
It's obvious gnostics have their head buried in the sand. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17
Declared the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1:4
 
That is correct.

I suppose so, but I never said they knew nothing about what the other wrote. Earlier you said: "They read each other's accounts." I stated that we have no evidence for that conclusion. I do think that both authors were obviously familiar with the general beliefs of the Christians of their day. So any similarity between the works of Matthew and Luke can be attributed at least in part to those common beliefs.

For what it's worth, most Bible scholars have concluded that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are not based on each other but on the Gospel of Mark and a "lost gospel Q." If this hypothesis is correct, then Matthew and Luke didn't read each other's works.

How does it follow that the broken-rope story follows from Matthew and Luke reading each other's works even if they did so?

I should point out that Luke didn't actually write an account of the death of Judas but quoted a sermon he wrote that Peter delivered. In other words, the story of Judas dying by disembowelment in Acts was Peter's account rather than Luke's account. As such, the disembowelment story becomes even more peculiar because Peter surely would have known that Judas hanged himself if Judas did hang himself.
Yes. Luke is repeating Peter's story, that is a good point. Peter was present when these things took place and knows what he is talking about.
 
Might just be a "time factor": Judas hanged himself, and after a while he simply decomposed, and fell to the ground, bursting open in the fall, so both accounts are accurate, but chronologically displaced. Simple as that.
Here's a hypothesis that is also possible: Say there was enmity between Matthew and Luke. When Luke became aware of Matthew saying that Judas hanged himself, Luke got busy fabricating a story in Acts featuring Peter preaching a sermon saying that Judas was actually disemboweled! Luke relished the thought of making Matthew look untrustworthy.

So how is your "simple" apologetic harmonizing the accounts of the death of Judas in Matthew and in Acts any better an explanation than my hypothesis? If you can make up stories to harmonize scripture, then anybody can. And if anybody can make up such explanations, then what are they worth?

Finally, while you're thinking about all that, you can answer this question: If Judas fell from a noose having already died, then how did his body fall headlong? I don't think dead men make good acrobats.
 
A scenario like this is far more likely. If Matthew and Luke were comparing notes there wouldn't be so many discrepancies between the two. And there are many.
Excellent observation, OLG! That's correct.
That would be an absurd proposition. But there are many here who are willing to shamelessly promote their absurd imaginations.
Using the imagination is good as long as it's based in reason rather than in pet ideas.
18 With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field, there he [he hung himself and then the rope broke and he] fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this

Absurd.
How could Judas hang himself in a field? Fields are absent anything to tie a rope to.
 
Here's a hypothesis that is also possible: Say there was enmity between Matthew and Luke. When Luke became aware of Matthew saying that Judas hanged himself, Luke got busy fabricating a story in Acts featuring Peter preaching a sermon saying that Judas was actually disemboweled! Luke relished the thought of making Matthew look untrustworthy.

So how is your "simple" apologetic harmonizing the accounts of the death of Judas in Matthew and in Acts any better an explanation than my hypothesis? If you can make up stories to harmonize scripture, then anybody can. And if anybody can make up such explanations, then what are they worth?

Finally, while you're thinking about all that, you can answer this question: If Judas fell from a noose having already died, then how did his body fall headlong? I don't think dead men make good acrobats.
Chuckle!!!
 
Excellent observation, OLG! That's correct.

Using the imagination is good as long as it's based in reason rather than in pet ideas.

Adopting as fact whatever you imagined up is never a good idea.

Imagination is only useful as a means to speculate what a text might mean. It itself never amounts to fact.

How could Judas hang himself in a field? Fields are absent anything to tie a rope to.

Your imagination didn't serve you well here. I have seen lots of solitary trees standing in the middle of fields. I have seen far more groves of trees in fields.
 
Adopting as fact whatever you imagined up is never a good idea.
That is true. Paul tried to adopt himself into the kingdom of God instead of actually being born of God to be His child, son.
Imagination is only useful as a means to speculate what a text might mean. It itself never amounts to fact.
Yes' a belief is only speculation with no substance for reality. One can believe anything about a god but it is another matter when that God is manifest in real time.
Your imagination didn't serve you well here. I have seen lots of solitary trees standing in the middle of fields. I have seen far more groves of trees in fields
 
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