The difference between religion and the gospel of Jesus

SteveB

Well-known member
From a friend. Religion vs. Grace...

Religion says that if we obey God He will love us. The gospel says that it is because God has loved us through Jesus that we can obey. Religion says that the world is filled with good people and bad people.

The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

Religion says that you should trust in what you do as a good moral person. The gospel says that you should trust in the perfectly sinless life of Jesus because He alone is the only good and truly moral person who will ever live.

The goal of religion is to get from God such things as health, wealth, insight, power, and control.

The goal of the gospel is not the gifts God gives, but rather God as the gift given to us by grace.

Religion is about what I have to do. The gospel is about what I get to do.

Religion sees hardship in life as punishment from God. The gospel sees hardship in life as sanctifying affliction that reminds us of Jesus’ sufferings and is used by God in love to make us more like Jesus.
Religion is about me.
The gospel is about Jesus.

Religion leads to an uncertainty about my standing before God because I never know if I have done enough to please God.

The gospel leads to a certainty about my standing before God because of the finished work of Jesus on my behalf on the cross.

Religion ends in either pride (because I think I am better than other people) or despair (because I continually fall short of God’s commands).

The gospel ends in humble and confident joy because of the power of Jesus at work for me, in me, through me, and sometimes in spite of me.

Why would you actually think man's ideas of religion are of any value.

Jesus is the only one who has what the human race needs.
 

TeabagSalad

Active member
The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

This is one of the most abhorrent teachings of Christianity. It obviously not true, the world is full of people, some are good, some are bad - simple observation of people's behaviour shows us this.

Going around telling people they are bad is plain wrong, and more than a little nasty. And trying to sell them the "cure" just stinks of dishonesty, and sounds like the con that it is.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
This is one of the most abhorrent teachings of Christianity. It obviously not true, the world is full of people, some are good, some are bad - simple observation of people's behaviour shows us this.

Going around telling people they are bad is plain wrong, and more than a little nasty. And trying to sell them the "cure" just stinks of dishonesty, and sounds like the con that it is.
So, if 100% of the human race is going to die because of a disease, you think telling them what the cure for their disease is, is a problem, because you are including the fact that they are going to die......
 

The Pixie

Active member
So, if 100% of the human race is going to die because of a disease, you think telling them what the cure for their disease is, is a problem, because you are including the fact that they are going to die......
Let us bear in mind that God is the one who engineered that disease...
 

treeplanter

Active member
From a friend. Religion vs. Grace...

Religion says that if we obey God He will love us. The gospel says that it is because God has loved us through Jesus that we can obey. Religion says that the world is filled with good people and bad people.

The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

Religion says that you should trust in what you do as a good moral person. The gospel says that you should trust in the perfectly sinless life of Jesus because He alone is the only good and truly moral person who will ever live.

The goal of religion is to get from God such things as health, wealth, insight, power, and control.

The goal of the gospel is not the gifts God gives, but rather God as the gift given to us by grace.

Religion is about what I have to do. The gospel is about what I get to do.

Religion sees hardship in life as punishment from God. The gospel sees hardship in life as sanctifying affliction that reminds us of Jesus’ sufferings and is used by God in love to make us more like Jesus.
Religion is about me.
The gospel is about Jesus.

Religion leads to an uncertainty about my standing before God because I never know if I have done enough to please God.

The gospel leads to a certainty about my standing before God because of the finished work of Jesus on my behalf on the cross.

Religion ends in either pride (because I think I am better than other people) or despair (because I continually fall short of God’s commands).

The gospel ends in humble and confident joy because of the power of Jesus at work for me, in me, through me, and sometimes in spite of me.

Why would you actually think man's ideas of religion are of any value.

Jesus is the only one who has what the human race needs.

Your words, Steve:
"Repentance is the word for changing your mind and agreeing with God's Word on all things that he's saying matters"

From the thread titled: WHO HERE CAN BUILD A FENCE?
Post #124

This sounds suspiciously like you having conformed to the definition of religion that you are now eschewing, doesn't it?

After all, you agreed to obey God {via substituting His thoughts and feelings for your own} in exchange for salvation!

Obey God and He will love us is only part of what Christianity teaches

Here is the part that you left out, Steve:
Fail to love God {i.e. refuse to replace His thoughts and feelings for our own} and He will send us to Hell

Religion, Christianity, scripture, gospel
Call it whatever you want, Steve - it's all the same thing!

John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"

In other words, stop thinking for yourself and become a mindless slave to Him or He will burn you and torture you forever

It is because God has "loved us through Jesus that we can obey"?
Well, Jesus died for me just as He died for you, Steve - and yet I, personally, CANNOT bring myself to obey Him
Where is your 'gospel' theory, now???
 

5wize

Well-known member
From a friend. Religion vs. Grace...

Religion says that if we obey God He will love us. The gospel says that it is because God has loved us through Jesus that we can obey. Religion says that the world is filled with good people and bad people.

The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

Religion says that you should trust in what you do as a good moral person. The gospel says that you should trust in the perfectly sinless life of Jesus because He alone is the only good and truly moral person who will ever live.

The goal of religion is to get from God such things as health, wealth, insight, power, and control.

The goal of the gospel is not the gifts God gives, but rather God as the gift given to us by grace.

Religion is about what I have to do. The gospel is about what I get to do.

Religion sees hardship in life as punishment from God. The gospel sees hardship in life as sanctifying affliction that reminds us of Jesus’ sufferings and is used by God in love to make us more like Jesus.
Religion is about me.
The gospel is about Jesus.

Religion leads to an uncertainty about my standing before God because I never know if I have done enough to please God.

The gospel leads to a certainty about my standing before God because of the finished work of Jesus on my behalf on the cross.

Religion ends in either pride (because I think I am better than other people) or despair (because I continually fall short of God’s commands).

The gospel ends in humble and confident joy because of the power of Jesus at work for me, in me, through me, and sometimes in spite of me.

Why would you actually think man's ideas of religion are of any value.

Jesus is the only one who has what the human race needs.
Most of that is bunk because it isn't in the gospels. It's mostly found in Paul's non-gospel based thinking and that whack-a-doodle book of gratuitously sensational woo-woo of John.
 

Howie

Active member
This is one of the most abhorrent teachings of Christianity. It obviously not true, the world is full of people, some are good, some are bad - simple observation of people's behaviour shows us this.

Going around telling people they are bad is plain wrong, and more than a little nasty. And trying to sell them the "cure" just stinks of dishonesty, and sounds like the con that it is.
You're one of the good ones right?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Let us bear in mind that God is the one who engineered that disease...
Well, when you figure out how to keep your body operating for the next several trillion millennia, you can sell it to the highest bidders.

Until then, all your complaints only ensures that you don't get to enjoy eternal life.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Your words, Steve:
"Repentance is the word for changing your mind and agreeing with God's Word on all things that he's saying matters"

From the thread titled: WHO HERE CAN BUILD A FENCE?
Post #124

This sounds suspiciously like you having conformed to the definition of religion that you are now eschewing, doesn't it?

After all, you agreed to obey God {via substituting His thoughts and feelings for your own} in exchange for salvation!

Obey God and He will love us is only part of what Christianity teaches

Here is the part that you left out, Steve:
Fail to love God {i.e. refuse to replace His thoughts and feelings for our own} and He will send us to Hell

Religion, Christianity, scripture, gospel
Call it whatever you want, Steve - it's all the same thing!

John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"

In other words, stop thinking for yourself and become a mindless slave to Him or He will burn you and torture you forever

It is because God has "loved us through Jesus that we can obey"?
Well, Jesus died for me just as He died for you, Steve - and yet I, personally, CANNOT bring myself to obey Him
Where is your 'gospel' theory, now???
Same as it's always been.

Dating back to the beginning of creation.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”​

Do you actually want to continue to believe that your self-assassination is going to win you the prize?

You'll find that the only thing you're accomplishing is akin to a man who pours acid on himself and then blaming others for your own self-loathing.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Most of that is bunk because it isn't in the gospels. It's mostly found in Paul's non-gospel based thinking and that whack-a-doodle book of gratuitously sensational woo-woo of John.
Ok.

You pick the parts you believe are not actually part of the gospel and we'll work through it.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Ok.

You pick the parts you believe are not actually part of the gospel and we'll work through it.
Let's start with what Jesus himself said about it and JUST what Jesus said about it. Isolate those direct quotes Steve and we'll work through it.
 

treeplanter

Active member
Same as it's always been.

Dating back to the beginning of creation.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”​

Do you actually want to continue to believe that your self-assassination is going to win you the prize?

You'll find that the only thing you're accomplishing is akin to a man who pours acid on himself and then blaming others for your own self-loathing.
Do you actually want to
"talk to others, so they can engage God for their own spot in heaven"
like you claimed in post #123 of the thread titled: Orange Bowl
or do you only want to issue empty threats for the umpteenth time?

If it's the former - then why don't you address what I have said?

You have admitted that you have stopped thinking for yourself and have substituted God's thoughts as regarding right and wrong for your own

How is that NOT what you have defined, in the OP, as religion?

You said that religion is a decree to obey God so that He will love us

Changing your mind to agree with all things that God says is the very EPITOME of following a decree to obey Him in exchange for His love {salvation}!!!

Seems to me that you are absolutely a follower of religion, Steve!
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Let's start with what Jesus himself said about it and JUST what Jesus said about it. Isolate those direct quotes Steve and we'll work through it.
Pick the parts that you want dealt with and I'll go from there.

You are the one who said you are quite familiar with the bible, so you're obviously looking for something specific.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Do you actually want to
"talk to others, so they can engage God for their own spot in heaven"
like you claimed in post #123 of the thread titled: Orange Bowl
or do you only want to issue empty threats for the umpteenth time?

If it's the former - then why don't you address what I have said?

You have admitted that you have stopped thinking for yourself and have substituted God's thoughts as regarding right and wrong for your own

How is that NOT what you have defined, in the OP, as religion?

You said that religion is a decree to obey God so that He will love us

Changing your mind to agree with all things that God says is the very EPITOME of following a decree to obey Him in exchange for His love {salvation}!!!

Seems to me that you are absolutely a follower of religion, Steve!
You're the one who keeps saying that God is immoral.

If you actually want to go to hell, then why are you complaining about what I've stated?
 
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