The doctrine of 2 or 3 witnesses !

civic

Active member
One of the most misused and abused passages in all of Christendom !

Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered together in My Name that he would be in their midst !


1 Corinthians 5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.


Paul's teaching above lines up with Jesus teaching on the subject of Judging sin in a believer and removing them from fellowship if they do not repent by the witness/testimony principle of 2 or 3 witnesses let every fact be confirmed. God is in your midst(with you) in this disciplinary action because of the testimony of the witnesses. The binding and loosing below has to do with sin and discipline. People so often abuse this passage where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus name and He is in their midst. The context in sin and church discipline.

Matthew 18:15-20
If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Deuteronomy 19:15
A lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

hope this helps !!!
 

UncleAbee

Member
Agreed .... two or three witnesses is about confirming facts and witness testimony. It's not about the number of people needed to "produce" Christ or about receiving what you ask for. Definitely a highly abused passage.
 

Cynthia

Member
One of the most misused and abused passages in all of Christendom !

Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered together in My Name that he would be in their midst !


1 Corinthians 5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.


Paul's teaching above lines up with Jesus teaching on the subject of Judging sin in a believer and removing them from fellowship if they do not repent by the witness/testimony principle of 2 or 3 witnesses let every fact be confirmed. God is in your midst(with you) in this disciplinary action because of the testimony of the witnesses. The binding and loosing below has to do with sin and discipline. People so often abuse this passage where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus name and He is in their midst. The context in sin and church discipline.

Matthew 18:15-20
If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Deuteronomy 19:15
A lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

hope this helps !!!
re: 1cor5.12-13

we see so many judging those outside the church and feeling self righteous or even persecuted for it when there is push back. but Jesus through paul taught us to only be concerned with those in the church, to keep it pure.

an example: refusing to make a cake for a wedding between same sex couple.

the christians who owned the bakery sold their goods out of display cases daily, without ever questioning the lifestyle of their customers. but when a same sex couple wanted to have a cake made for their wedding, they judged them and refused. their hyprocracy caused their difficulty.

was it a setup? perhaps. but if they would have heeded this passage, they would not have been sued and their lives would have gone on as usual.

should the church condone same sex relationships and marriage within the church? absolutely not.

but if you have a business that provides goods and services to the general public, you cannot judge them since they are not the church.
 

UncleAbee

Member
Cynthia, I agree 100% with what you wrote. The church absolutely shouldn't condone same sex relationships but a public business cannot refuse to make and sell products to a same sex couple.
 
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