The doctrine of the Holy trinity is clear in Scripture...

robycop3

Active member
We see the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is clearly implied in the story of Jesus' baptism, where Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all manifest before men, physically separate from each other.
 

Gary Mac

Member
We see the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is clearly implied in the story of Jesus' baptism, where Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all manifest before men, physically separate from each other.
Yes -- He in me and I in Him are one just as Jesus was one in Him, see Jesus prayer to his God that we be in John 17. Not many follow him in his way though and are separated from having from God that what Jesus had from Him.
 

TrevorL

Member
We see the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is clearly implied in the story of Jesus' baptism, where Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all manifest before men, physically separate from each other.
Greetings robycop3,

The concept of the Trinity does not seem real obvious to me here at the baptism of Jesus. We have God the Father in heaven proclaiming that Jesus is God the Father’s beloved Servant/Son Isaiah 42:1, Matthew 3:17, we have a human, Jesus the Son of God submitting to baptism indicating that he will voluntarily submit to the death and resurrection that God His Father has foreshadowed, a death which a God cannot die, and we have God anointing Jesus with the Holy Spirit, God the Father’s spirit Isaiah 42:1, Matthew 3:16, a power which if Jesus was already God would not need as an additional item Acts 2:22. After his death and resurrection the picture presented is that Jesus the Son of God, Son of Man, has been exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father, in God the Father’s Throne, and he is awaiting the day when God will send him to establish the Kingdom upon the earth and sit upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem Acts 2:29-36, Psalm 110:1, Acts 3:19-21, Matthew 19:28, Revelation 3:21, Luke 1:30-35, Isaiah 2:1-4.

So in summary we have the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, a human now exalted, now sitting at the right hand of God His Father, and the Holy Spirit, the power of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again robycop3,
Sorry, Chief, but the Holy Spirit is definitely a PERSONAGE, same as Yahweh & Jesus.
Luke 4:1 (KJV): And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Luke 4:18 (KJV): The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Acts 2:4 (KJV): And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:22 (KJV): Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 10:38 (KJV): How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings robycop3,

The concept of the Trinity does not seem real obvious to me here at the baptism of Jesus. We have God the Father in heaven proclaiming that Jesus is God the Father’s beloved Servant/Son Isaiah 42:1, Matthew 3:17, we have a human, Jesus the Son of God submitting to baptism indicating that he will voluntarily submit to the death and resurrection that God His Father has foreshadowed, a death which a God cannot die, and we have God anointing Jesus with the Holy Spirit, God the Father’s spirit Isaiah 42:1, Matthew 3:16, a power which if Jesus was already God would not need as an additional item Acts 2:22. After his death and resurrection the picture presented is that Jesus the Son of God, Son of Man, has been exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father, in God the Father’s Throne, and he is awaiting the day when God will send him to establish the Kingdom upon the earth and sit upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem Acts 2:29-36, Psalm 110:1, Acts 3:19-21, Matthew 19:28, Revelation 3:21, Luke 1:30-35, Isaiah 2:1-4.

So in summary we have the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, a human now exalted, now sitting at the right hand of God His Father, and the Holy Spirit, the power of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity. God is one person but God has billions of roles. Father and Son are two roles and the sons in Christ are billions of roles. Since the church is joined to one Spirit then it is one God who is in many roles. The church are not their own and their lives are hid in Christ thus the church is a corporate body joined to one Spirit that is God.

All that come out of the one God are roles of God and they return back to God just as the Son of God has returned back to God. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings SeventhDay,
Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity. God is one person but God has billions of roles. Father and Son are two roles and the sons in Christ are billions of roles. Since the church is joined to one Spirit then it is one God who is in many roles. The church are not their own and their lives are hid in Christ thus the church is a corporate body joined to one Spirit that is God.
All that come out of the one God are roles of God and they return back to God just as the Son of God has returned back to God.
I appreciate your perspective, but I cannot agree. I believe that God the Father is a distinct Being, and He is separate to our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is a glorified human being. I also believe in the resurrection and glorification of the faithful, and hence a change from mortality to immortality. Each of the faithful will also be distinct beings, just as we are distinct beings today..

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings SeventhDay,

I appreciate your perspective, but I cannot agree. I believe that God the Father is a distinct Being, and He is separate to our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is a glorified human being. I also believe in the resurrection and glorification of the faithful, and hence a change from mortality to immortality. Each of the faithful will also be distinct beings, just as we are distinct beings today..

Kind regards
Trevor
Look at is this way, TrevorL. God as Father is a role if God has a Son right? Well, if God can have a role of a Father then why could not God have the role of the Son? Also, is it Not God in a Father and Son relationship? You actually can not separate either one. The Word made flesh entails Father and Son in relationship and you can not have one without the other. Now, Consider that Elohim is a plurality and it shows God's oneness. Did not Jesus say the Father and he are one? This oneness is Father in the Son and the Son in the Father but also extends to a vast family od sons in Christ. A simple definition for God's oneness is that God is complete in himself and that includes all complete in God and God complete in them. You see it is just one God but it is a plurality. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again SeventhDay,
God as Father is a role if God has a Son right? Well, if God can have a role of a Father then why could not God have the role of the Son?
Good theory, but not in reality. No, I do not want to “look at this way”, as it is confusion. Yes God the Father is the source of all things, hence also the title “Father”, but He has produced distinct beings, including our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and all the faithful will ultimately be glorified sons of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again SeventhDay,

Good theory, but not in reality. No, I do not want to “look at this way”, as it is confusion. Yes God the Father is the source of all things, hence also the title “Father”, but He has produced distinct beings, including our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and all the faithful will ultimately be glorified sons of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
Roles are beings or persons but they still are roles of God. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

robycop3

Active member
Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity. God is one person but God has billions of roles. Father and Son are two roles and the sons in Christ are billions of roles. Since the church is joined to one Spirit then it is one God who is in many roles. The church are not their own and their lives are hid in Christ thus the church is a corporate body joined to one Spirit that is God.

All that come out of the one God are roles of God and they return back to God just as the Son of God has returned back to God. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I." Even Jesus can't be greater than Himself !
He also said He would SEND the Holy Spirit.
And Jesus also said He could forgive something spoken against Himself, but there's no forgiveness for anything spoken against the Holy Spirit. So, Jesus is not also the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
 
There can be no doubt who Jesus is.
Jesus is God.
Isaiah clearly say’s He is GOD and so does John.
He was in the Beginning.
Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


John 1:1-2
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son,* full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 (KJV)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 14:9 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
 

civic

Active member
There can be no doubt who Jesus is.
Jesus is God.
Isaiah clearly say’s He is GOD and so does John.
He was in the Beginning.
Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


John 1:1-2
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son,* full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 (KJV)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 14:9 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
One must turn a blind eye to scripture and read their own false doctrines into the biblical text to deny the Deity of Christ and that the bible declares the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all called God.
 

Newbirth

Member
Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity. God is one person but God has billions of roles. Father and Son are two roles and the sons in Christ are billions of roles. Since the church is joined to one Spirit then it is one God who is in many roles. The church are not their own and their lives are hid in Christ thus the church is a corporate body joined to one Spirit that is God.

All that come out of the one God are roles of God and they return back to God just as the Son of God has returned back to God. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
LoL You are saying that Jes was his own father. Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity.
 

Newbirth

Member
One must turn a blind eye to scripture and read their own false doctrines into the biblical text to deny the Deity of Christ and that the bible declares the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all called God.
How many deities do you have?
 
LoL You are saying that Jes was his own father. Jesus on earth was God in the flesh and thus was the Father and the Son and the Spirit was God in activity.
Yes, Jesus is the one and only Lord God of the Scriptures who is a plurality of the Father and the Son in relationship and a whole family of sons of God in Christ. Also, since Jesus is eternal and gives eternal life to those he has called to himself imply the returning of Sons back to God where they are in the Now. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
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TrevorL

Member
Greetings Tanachreader and civic,
There can be no doubt who Jesus is. Jesus is God. Isaiah clearly say’s He is GOD and so does John. He was in the Beginning.
I should imagine that the previous version of CARM fully discussed this subject from both perspectives, so I will briefly state how I understand your claims.

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The phrase “the Mighty God” in the original is not the usual expression for “God”, and has been rendered “the Mighty Warrior”. The whole passage is speaking about the attributes of Jesus, the child that was to be born. He is certainly mighty in strength, and even has the title “the Lion of the Tribe of Judah”. Jesus is also “the everlasting Father”, but this can be rendered the Father of the Age to Come. Even Trinitarians try to distinguish the Son from the Father, but possibly you are trying to merge them later in this Post when you quote John 14:9.

John 1:1-2
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14 14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son,* full of grace and truth.
My understanding of John 1:1 is the “Word” is a personification of God’s character, thoughts and purpose, similar to the personification of the wise woman “Wisdom” in Proverbs 8 who was with God in the creation. This purpose and plan and wisdom finds its realisation in the birth and development of Jesus, the only begotten Son of God the Father Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35.

John 8:58 (KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
My understanding of this passage is that it should be translated “I am he”, the same as translated in the immediate context in John 8:24,28. It is part of the theme in John’s Gospel of whether Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and John summarises this in John 20:30-31 and affirms that he is and this is the purpose of his Gospel Record. Also I do not accept the KJV rendition of Exodus 3:14 “I AM”, as I believe the correct translation is “I will be” as found in the RV and RSV margins, and I like Tyndale’s rendition and spelling “I wilbe”. This rendition is also confirmed in Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 6:1-8.

John 14:9 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Yes, Jesus the Son of God fully revealed the character and ways of God His Father. Jesus revealed the glory of God, as he was full of grace and truth. Jesus was not born with a fully developed mind and character, but at the start of his ministry he fully revealed the character of God Luke 2:40,52.

One must turn a blind eye to scripture and read their own false doctrines into the biblical text to deny the Deity of Christ and that the bible declares the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all called God.
On the other hand, one’s vision must be obscured to reject the clear teaching of the Bible that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The application of the word “God” or Hebrew “Elohim” is discussed by Jesus in John 10:30-36.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Newbirth

Member
Yes, Jesus is the one and only Lord God of the Scriptures who is a plurality of the Father and the Son in relationship and a whole family of sons of God in Christ. Also, since Jesus is eternal and gives eternal life to those he has called to himself imply the returning of Sons back to God where they are in the Now. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
where is that written in the scripture sir?Jesus is the one and only Lord God of the Scriptures who is a plurality of the Father and the Son in relationship and a whole family of sons of God in Christ.
 
where is that written in the scripture sir?Jesus is the one and only Lord God of the Scriptures who is a plurality of the Father and the Son in relationship and a whole family of sons of God in Christ.
As I told you many times before when studying scriptures you have to deal with inferences and there are many. Thus, brush up on your math and I am willing to help you as God guides me. Okay? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
Greetings Tanachreader and civic,

I should imagine that the previous version of CARM fully discussed this subject from both perspectives, so I will briefly state how I understand your claims.


The phrase “the Mighty God” in the original is not the usual expression for “God”, and has been rendered “the Mighty Warrior”. The whole passage is speaking about the attributes of Jesus, the child that was to be born. He is certainly mighty in strength, and even has the title “the Lion of the Tribe of Judah”. Jesus is also “the everlasting Father”, but this can be rendered the Father of the Age to Come. Even Trinitarians try to distinguish the Son from the Father, but possibly you are trying to merge them later in this Post when you quote John 14:9.


My understanding of John 1:1 is the “Word” is a personification of God’s character, thoughts and purpose, similar to the personification of the wise woman “Wisdom” in Proverbs 8 who was with God in the creation. This purpose and plan and wisdom finds its realisation in the birth and development of Jesus, the only begotten Son of God the Father Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35.


My understanding of this passage is that it should be translated “I am he”, the same as translated in the immediate context in John 8:24,28. It is part of the theme in John’s Gospel of whether Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and John summarises this in John 20:30-31 and affirms that he is and this is the purpose of his Gospel Record. Also I do not accept the KJV rendition of Exodus 3:14 “I AM”, as I believe the correct translation is “I will be” as found in the RV and RSV margins, and I like Tyndale’s rendition and spelling “I wilbe”. This rendition is also confirmed in Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 6:1-8.


Yes, Jesus the Son of God fully revealed the character and ways of God His Father. Jesus revealed the glory of God, as he was full of grace and truth. Jesus was not born with a fully developed mind and character, but at the start of his ministry he fully revealed the character of God Luke 2:40,52.


On the other hand, one’s vision must be obscured to reject the clear teaching of the Bible that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The application of the word “God” or Hebrew “Elohim” is discussed by Jesus in John 10:30-36.

Kind regards
Trevor
The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest, most complete version of the Hebrew text.
The English translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls come from Professor Peter Flint and Professor Eugene Ulrich. Isaiah 9:6 reads,

For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will be on his shoulders. He is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

If you are going to rely on orthodox Jewish scribes than you might as well give up on Jesus as being true as they have changed the Word to disprove who He Is.
In real time Isaiah saw who He is.
Isaiah 6.

Elisabeth, Mary’s cousin said while He was in the womb that HER LORD was in MARY’s BELLY!
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me
 
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