The End Times . . . .

Maxtar

Active member
Sure it does. catholics are just blind to it. they're deceived by the RCC teachings.
No merit. That's my opinion as you have yours. You have been deceived by the so-called reformers.

yes, in words only. you have the words memorized. BUT your hearts know nothing of it.
You do not know what is in the heart of any individual Catholic. - you are not God.
so much so that catholics still have Him dead on the cross...

Where did He command that you worship the cross? post the verse.

No, He died and ROSE from the dead. He said to worship by recreating the Last Supper which represents the Cross, which is the "New Covenant" - His body that would given up and His blood that would be shed. (Luke 22:19-20) That's worship, not the endless tirade from some Pastor somewhere giving the congregation his take on things.




Evidently you've never been to a believer's worship service. you can see some of them online, on tv etc. or check out one in your local area.

Oh yeah, I've been. Where's Jesus? Where's the altar? Just saw a bunch of people ranting and raving, but if that is your way of worship go for it.

your Mass isn't holy at all. nor is it 'alive' with scripture at any point. There is no presence of the Holy Spirit in it.

Once again, just your opinion.

believers don't worship a book, but we do thirst for more knowledge of Him, which is found in His word. that you don't spend time in scripture (His story for us) shows in your lack of knowledge of it and in your belief in what the RCC teaches. He gave it to us, He had it all written out for us (inspired by the Holy Spirit), so how can you say you worship Him while ignoring His words ?

Go out and live a Christlike life instead of just reading about Him.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
No, He died and ROSE from the dead. He said to worship by recreating the Last Supper

No, He didn't tell us to 're create' the Last supper....He simply said to remember Him when we come together to break bread.

Oh yeah, I've been. Where's Jesus? Where's the altar? Just saw a bunch of people ranting and raving, but if that is your way of worship, who am I to say otherwise?

So you really haven't been to a true worship service....where was the altar when people gathered in their homes to worship? Oh yea, nowhere.

Go out and live a Christlike life instead of just reading about Him.

Go read about Him so you can start living a Christlike life.
 

Maxtar

Active member
So you really haven't been to a true worship service....where was the altar when people gathered in their homes to worship? Oh yea, nowhere.
They only worshipped in their homes because they had to to keep what they were doing secret - Christians were routinely persecuted back then, remember? Things changed however when Christians were allowed to build churches. Wooden altars did not survive into the future, however stone altars have been discovered. One of these is the fifth-century altar discovered at Auriol, in France and it's not the only one. The Christian Church, it evolved and did not remain stagnant. Having altars in Christian Church's became the norm, until of course they were ripped out by the so-called reformers. I have been to many a non - Catholic service, mostly Baptist ones at truck stops. I have no problem praying with other Christians.

Go read about Him so you can start living a Christlike life.
The church I attend tells me to love God, to look to Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins, and to love my fellow human beings. I do my best as I am out and about.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
No merit. That's my opinion as you have yours. You have been deceived by the so-called reformers.


You do not know what is in the heart of any individual Catholic. - you are not God.


No, He died and ROSE from the dead. He said to worship by recreating the Last Supper which represents the Cross, which is the "New Covenant" - His body that would given up and His blood that would be shed. (Luke 22:19-20) That's worship, not the endless tirade from some Pastor somewhere giving the congregation his take on things.
NO, He did NOT say to worship by recreating the Last Supper - the Last Supper is NOT Jesus Christ and is NOT to be worshipped

"which represents the Cross" - and "the Cross" is NOT Jesus Christ and He did NOT say to worship it.

"which is the New Covenant"- and the New Covenant is NOT Jesus Christ and is NOT to be worshipped either.


Oh yeah, I've been. Where's Jesus? Where's the altar? Just saw a bunch of people ranting and raving, but if that is your way of worship go it.



Go out and live a Christlike life instead of just reading about Him.
Heads up max - even sincere Jesus-believing people, such as yourself and many other Roman Catholics are, can become deceived and spend eternity in hell because they believed in a false Jesus, as you have just demonstrated.

The Jesus of Roman Catholicism is not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible.
 
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mica

Well-known member
Maxtar said:
Your constant refrain has no merit.
mica said:

Sure it does. catholics are just blind to it. they're deceived by the RCC teachings.
No merit. That's my opinion as you have yours. You have been deceived by the so-called reformers.
yes, merit. your opinion is based on the teachings of men. mine is based on scripture.

I know little to nothing about the reformers. a little (very little) about Luther - and that would mostly be what I learned about him - from the RCC.

mica said:
Sure it does. catholics are just blind to it. they're deceived by the RCC teachings.
You do not know what is in the heart of any individual Catholic. - you are not God.
individuals are very open about it - in what they believe, who they believe in and follow, by how they live their lives. remember that bit in scripture about - the fruit?

No, He died and ROSE from the dead. He said to worship by recreating the Last Supper which represents the Cross, which is the "New Covenant" - His body that would given up and His blood that would be shed. (Luke 22:19-20) That's worship, not the endless tirade from some Pastor somewhere giving the congregation his take on things.
no, He did not say that. that's what you're taught by the RCC, so that's what you read it to say. but that isn't what scripture says.

what's worship? typing out that line? just reading it? even unbelievers can do that.

Oh yeah, I've been. Where's Jesus? Where's the altar? Just saw a bunch of people ranting and raving, but if that is your way of worship go for it.
He won't be found as a man made figurine hanging on a cross. He's in the heart of every believer present. No altar needed, no more sacrifices to be made. He did it all on Calvary.

What were they ranting and raving about? did you listen to what they were saying?

Was there a teaching? What was it about?

mica said:
your Mass isn't holy at all. nor is it 'alive' with scripture at any point. There is no presence of the Holy Spirit in it.
Once again, just your opinion.
based on many Masses (well over a 1000) in my younger life vs what I found at a believing group/church after being saved. Major /mega difference in them.

mica said:
believers don't worship a book, but we do thirst for more knowledge of Him, which is found in His word. that you don't spend time in scripture (His story for us) shows in your lack of knowledge of it and in your belief in what the RCC teaches. He gave it to us, He had it all written out for us (inspired by the Holy Spirit), so how can you say you worship Him while ignoring His words ?

Maxtar said: Go out and live a Christlike life instead of just reading about Him.
I do. I do a whole lot of both. But I couldn't live a Christlike life until I knew HIM, until I accepted Him into my heart as Lord and Savior. THEN I had that unending desire to know His word and spent lots of time in my early years reading and learning about Him. AND then I also had the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Those are lacking in the lives of catholics - heart knowledge of Christ as Lord and Savior, the desire to know more of Him and His word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 

mica

Well-known member
4Him said:
Go read about Him so you can start living a Christlike life.
...
The church I attend tells me to love God,
but then it doesn't teach you the truth about Him and His word... how is that showing you love?

to look to Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins,
but then it teaches you to confess your sins to a man, not directly to God... and teaches that the man can give you forgiveness, forgiveness that can only come from God. Believers have a direct line to God thru Christ. It doesn't require a human middle man.

and to love my fellow human beings. I do my best as I am out and about.
what we know as love in this world is not His love... I found that I couldn't even love me until I had Him. His love is not that of this world.
 

Maxtar

Active member
but then it teaches you to confess your sins to a man, not directly to God...

As the successors to the Apostles who were given that power by Jesus Himself, (John 20: 22-23) our clergymen also have that same ministerial power.

and teaches that the man can give you forgiveness, forgiveness that can only come from God.

No, it goes like this. "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and the resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
but then it teaches you to confess your sins to a man, not directly to God...
As the successors to the Apostles who were given that power by Jesus Himself, (John 20: 22-23) our clergymen also have that same ministerial power.
The RCC clergy are not successors to the apostles. They aren't called by God, they don't teach His word and they don't believe in and follow Him.

mica said:
and teaches that the man can give you forgiveness, forgiveness that can only come from God.
No, it goes like this. "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and the resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
the Holy Spirit is given to those who are born again. any catholic who becomes born again will shortly know (by the Holy Spirit) that they are no longer catholic but are now believers in Christ and they will depart from the RCC.

the RCC is not a ministry of God, has no power given by God and doesn't have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

he says 'I absolve you' - post a verse where an apostle / disciple says that... the only wrong a human can absolve another human from is a wrong done directly to that person (family/property), such as the well used by catholics 'broken window', backed into the neighbors car, ran over the neighbor kid's bike etc. If they did any of these things because they're nasty and mean then they need to take THAT part up directly with God Himself.
 

Maxtar

Active member
The RCC clergy are not successors to the apostles.
Once you believe that, case closed. No further discussion about what the Catholic Church (or the Eastern Orthodox Church for that matter) and their clergymen have the power to do is possible. Have a nice day!
 

balshan

Well-known member
Once you believe that, case closed. No further discussion about what the Catholic Church (or the Eastern Orthodox Church for that matter) and their clergymen have the power to do is possible. Have a nice day!
Let me see which apostle committed incest, was involved in orgies, murdered another, sexually abused children, tortured others or allowed said torture of others? Which apostle taught false doctrines or added extra burdens?
 

Maxtar

Active member
Let me see which apostle committed incest, was involved in orgies, murdered another, sexually abused children, tortured others or allowed said torture of others? Which apostle taught false doctrines or added extra burdens?

St. Peter denied Him 3 times and the rest of the Apostles abandoned Him at the time when He needed their support the most- that's pretty bad. But really, your constant harping on the sins of some of our clergy only reinforces the reality that we are all sinners. Each one of them can receive forgiveness from God for their transgressions and it's a good thing you are not the head honcho in heaven because it is clear that no forgiveness for anyone would ever be forthcoming from you.
 

mica

Well-known member
balshan said:
Let me see which apostle committed incest, was involved in orgies, murdered another, sexually abused children, tortured others or allowed said torture of others? Which apostle taught false doctrines or added extra burdens?
St. Peter denied Him 3 times and the rest of the Apostles abandoned Him at the time when He needed their support the most- that's pretty bad.
yes, it was bad. Do you think that Jesus didn't know that would happen? Was that pre or post His death and resurrection? pre or post them receiving the Holy Spirit?

But really, your constant harping on the sins of some of our clergy only reinforces the reality that we are all sinners.
It certainly points out that the RCC is not His church and that your clergy are not of Him. Why do catholics not rise up and protest against these clergy? and against how the RCC handles it ?

Each one of them can receive forgiveness from God for their transgressions and it's a good thing you are not the head honcho in heaven because it is clear that no forgiveness for anyone would ever be forthcoming from you.
can they? not by catholics 'rules' / standards of confessing to another priest instead of to God Himself. Why should or would He forgive those He has not called to Him? Those priests confessing to other priests and then continuing on in the same sin over and over again are not His and are not forgiven. They don't have Him to turn to or strengthen them. Their HEARTS are not right with God. It doesn't 'get right' with God by confessing to another priest (another human). It won't get right until they go TO HIM directly and become His (are born again).

It won't come from God until the heart of that priest / person is His alone.

It's just more lip service by catholics when a priest confesses to another priest and has no intention of stopping their sin.

catholics seem to have a lot of concern because of a broken window and believe they must 'pay' for that in purgatory one day, but they have no concern for all of the broken lives of kids those priests have molested and scarred forever in this life.
 

balshan

Well-known member
St. Peter denied Him 3 times and the rest of the Apostles abandoned Him at the time when He needed their support the most- that's pretty bad. But really, your constant harping on the sins of some of our clergy only reinforces the reality that we are all sinners. Each one of them can receive forgiveness from God for their transgressions and it's a good thing you are not the head honcho in heaven because it is clear that no forgiveness for anyone would ever be forthcoming from you.
Oh of course you do not know what happened to the apostles at Pentecost and of course Jesus didn't forgive them and of course Jesus did not know what they would do. I mean Jesus asked Peter how many times to feed my sheep. Whose sheep, not Peter's Jesus' sheep. 3 times Peter denied, 3 times Jesus asked him. We know they were forgiven and blessed with the Holy Spirit.

Yes they might but where are the signs of that happening, but it will be worse for them as they caused children to stumble:

Matt 18:6

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Yep you would like to think you are just like those priests really. This coming from an RC who believes in venial and mortal (grave) sins. Which sins did those priests commit. If they had repentance for their actions they would have handed themselves into the authorites. Did they? Oh, no they didn't and your institution covered it up. This is even worse, it means they were part of the sin.

Those leaders are nothing like Peter. You never forgive Peter, you keep harping on his denial of Jesus 3 times.

I will keep pointing out the smelly, foul fruit of your institution every time an RC claims their institution is apostolic and follows the apostle or that it is holy. The evidence is there century after century that it is not apostolic, it does not follow the apostles, or that it is holy. Paul never says flee from Peter he denied Jesus, but he does say flee from sexual sinners do not mix with them.

1 Cor 5:11

But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

Do you think Paul meant they would never be saved? He clearly states do not even eat with such people, your institution allow such leaders to touch what you believe is the body and blood of Jesus. You partake the communion with them. It is a clear violation of Paul's instructions.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
here's your post - Maxtar said:

The "end times" and the "rapture" is just another one of those evangelical ides that wasn't in vogue until the 1970's, brought to the fore by writer Hal Lindsay. It is just another false doctrine by you folks. So not only is it the 16th century when you people start making things up, it continues on right into the 20th.

Believers in Christ Jesus full well know that Roman Catholics deny the Word of God regarding the end-times and instead gobble-up the so-called "Eucharistic miracles" claimed by the Roman Catholic Church as being "end-time" signs. These reported Roman Catholic end-times "miracles" include: bleeding and pulsating RC Communion wafers, RC Communion wafers that do not decompose, and RC Communion wafers that transform into the image of a man - presumed to be Jesus Christ. Tests at several Marian apparition sites confirm that the blood emanating from miraculous RC Communion wafers is authentic. These so-called "miracles" claimed by the RCC, are presented as proof in conjunction with the reported Marian apparitions, that Christ is truly present under the appearance of the consecrated Roman Catholic Communion wafers.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
... the only wrong a human can absolve another human from is a wrong done directly to that person (family/property), such as the well used by catholics 'broken window', backed into the neighbors car, ran over the neighbor kid's bike etc. If they did any of these things because they're nasty and mean then they need to take THAT part up directly with God Himself.
Post a verse where an apostle/ disciple says this^
We're not allowed to pick and choose and make up what suits us. We are to follow the Church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

John 20: 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
... the only wrong a human can absolve another human from is a wrong done directly to that person (family/property), such as the well used by catholics 'broken window', backed into the neighbors car, ran over the neighbor kid's bike etc. If they did any of these things because they're nasty and mean then they need to take THAT part up directly with God Himself.
Post a verse where an apostle/ disciple says this^
We're not allowed to pick and choose and make up what suits us.
you aren't allowed (by the RCC) to know and understand God's word, only that of the RCC (as it tells you it is).

Believers don't pick and choose what 'suits us'. We believe and follow His word, not that of man. But then, our hearts have been changed by God and we have a great desire to read, search and understand His word. Catholics do not have that desire.

otoh, it must 'suit you' to believe the false teaching of the RCC instead of God's word OR you would dig into His word, read it and study it. But catholics don't do that, they are in bondage to the RCC, not to God. Some catholics actually do dig into His word and find His truth, they end up leaving the RCC when they realize they've been taught lies all of their lives in catholicism. God changes their hearts, He calls them out of catholicism and to Himself. They are saved and become part of His body, His church.

We are to follow the Church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
The RCC isn't the pillar and foundation of His truth. If it was it'd be teaching what is found in His word, but it doesn't do that. You'd find that out if you did read and study His word for yourself.

John 20: 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
What mission did He give them that would cause the sins of those 'any' to be forgiven? He had given the apostles and disciples something to make that possible. What was it?
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
you aren't allowed (by the RCC) to know and understand God's word, only that of the RCC (as it tells you it is).

What the Church teaches is true, because it is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Believers don't pick and choose what 'suits us'. We believe and follow His word, not that of man. But then, our hearts have been changed by God and we have a great desire to read, search and understand His word. Catholics do not have that desire.
I don't know anyone who doesn't want to know the truth. It's when people think for themselves, in opposition to orthodoxy, that they are in danger of leaving the narrow way and find themselves in error. Why would you want to do that?

otoh, it must 'suit you' to believe the false teaching of the RCC instead of God's word OR you would dig into His word, read it and study it. But catholics don't do that, they are in bondage to the RCC, not to God. Some catholics actually do dig into His word and find His truth, they end up leaving the RCC when they realize they've been taught lies all of their lives in catholicism. God changes their hearts, He calls them out of catholicism and to Himself. They are saved and become part of His body, His church.
The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ.

The RCC isn't the pillar and foundation of His truth. If it was it'd be teaching what is found in His word, but it doesn't do that. You'd find that out if you did read and study His word for yourself.
Yes it is; yes it does.

What mission did He give them that would cause the sins of those 'any' to be forgiven? He had given the apostles and disciples something to make that possible. What was it?

The ministry of reconciliation.
 

balshan

Well-known member
What the Church teaches is true, because it is the pillar and foundation of the truth.


I don't know anyone who doesn't want to know the truth. It's when people think for themselves, in opposition to orthodoxy, that they are in danger of leaving the narrow way and find themselves in error. Why would you want to do that?


The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ.


Yes it is; yes it does.



The ministry of reconciliation.
Your institution is NOT and NEVER was the pillar and foundation of truth. It teaches false doctrines, it lies, it mixes with sexual sinners, morals it would not know what is morally right if God gave them morals on a HUGE stone. It allowed children to be sacrificed, it allowed the rape of nuns, some of its popes participated in orgies, incest and have children outside marriage. The fruits of you institution prove it is not the foundation of truth.

It is on the wide road because it is not orthodox, if it was it would follow what the apostles wrote. It ignores the writings of Paul and most of the writings of Peter. It does things the apostles never would do.

Your institution ignores Paul on this matter and it even allows the abusers to celebrate the communion.

1 cor 5:11

But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

Its leaders have been sexually immoral and you associate with them. You present pope blesses idols. If it taught His word it would follow what is written in it. It doesn't. It teaches another gospel.

What an insult to Jesus to claim your institution is His mystical body. Jesus would not allow the abuse of children to come near Him in a fit. He would not have anything to do with an evil institution that allowed children to be abused, gave the perpetrators new killing fields and other leaders lied about it to authorities.

It has no ministry of reconciliation. It has never reconciled to the victims of abuse. Its leaders still try to sweep it all under the rug by claiming it is only a small number. The mission is to bring people to Jesus, not allow them to wallow and continue in their sinful ways.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Post a verse where an apostle/ disciple says this^
We're not allowed to pick and choose and make up what suits us. We are to follow the Church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

John 20: 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
I keep saying if you do not want to hear the sins of your institution. Do not make the false claim it is the pillar and foundation of truth. It isn't. It teaches a false doctrine. It lied to the laity when it claimed the victims of abuse were lying. It also bore false witness against them. It lied to authorities about what was happening. It treated those who came out with the truth as criminals. It allowed the evil to continue by moving the leaders from parish to parish, it lied to the children when it allowed them to think those men were acting as Jesus in the mass. It lies when it makes out there is a real change at communion. It lies about its history. It has lied throughout history and tries to wash its hands of the evil it has done throughout the centuries.

Jesus was not talking about your leaders.

By the way the father of lies is??????
 
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