The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.

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Yahchristian

Member
To demonstrate differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and what I believe, I am trying to identify statements that I WOULD affirm but Trinitarians would NOT affirm.

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


P.S. Here is how I see the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
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jamesh

Active member
So what your advocating is "Modalism" as defined here:
Does the One God Have Three Different Modes? (Modalism, Sabellianism)

Modalism, or Sabellianism, is inadequate view of the nature of God. The doctrine arises from a bishop in the early church named Sabellius. Modalism teaches that only one God exists and that the three persons listed in the Bible, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are modes or manifestations of the one God. As one human being may be a father, son, and husband at the same time, yet the person is only one individual, so it is true with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There are no distinct persons within the nature of God from the modalistic point of view. It is Unitarian in that it accepts only one Person in the Godhead"

Tell me how this statement of yours is not Modalism?

"GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father."

You have the one eternal God who according to John 4:24 is a spiritual being manifesting Himself in three spirit modes. Sure, you say, "God in the universe as a human is called the Son of God but did the Son of God always exist eternally as the Son of God, yes or no?

In Him,
herman
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
I have answered your question below, but PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION...

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


herman said:
So what your advocating is "Modalism" as defined here:
Does the One God Have Three Different Modes? (Modalism, Sabellianism)

Modalism, or Sabellianism, is inadequate view of the nature of God. The doctrine arises from a bishop in the early church named Sabellius. Modalism teaches that only one God exists and that the three persons listed in the Bible, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are modes or manifestations of the one God. As one human being may be a father, son, and husband at the same time, yet the person is only one individual, so it is true with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There are no distinct persons within the nature of God from the modalistic point of view. It is Unitarian in that it accepts only one Person in the Godhead"

Tell me how this statement of yours is not Modalism?

"GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father."

You have the one eternal God who according to John 4:24 is a spiritual being manifesting Himself in three spirit modes. Sure, you say, "God in the universe as a human is called the Son of God but did the Son of God always exist eternally as the Son of God, yes or no?

In Him,
herman
Click to expand...

My view WOULD be considered Modalism according to this part of your definition...
"Only one God exists and that the three persons listed in the Bible, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are modes or manifestations of the one God."
...because that would be one person in three manifestations.

But my view would NOT be considered Modalism according to this part of your definition...
"As one human being may be a father, son, and husband at the same time, yet the person is only one individual".
...because that would be one person with three roles.

But TRINITARIANS believe in Modalism if I were to define Modalism as "one being with three roles."

And TRINITARIANS believe in Modalism if I were to define Modalism as "one person may be a lord and a son at the same time, yet the person is only one individual".
 
Y

Yahchristian

Member
To demonstrate differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and what I believe, I am trying to identify statements that I WOULD affirm but Trinitarians would NOT affirm.

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 
J

jamesh

Active member
Yahchristian said:
To demonstrate differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and what I believe, I am trying to identify statements that I WOULD affirm but Trinitarians would NOT affirm.

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Click to expand...

Your completely wrong with your statement because your not considering or understanding the context of the two references. According to John 4:24 which says, "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth."

The point of this verse is the fact that God is a spiritual being and as such we our to worship Him in our spirit and in truth. Regarding Deuteronomy 33:27 no mention of the Spirit is mentioned. It specifically says, (as you highlighted) "The eternal God is a dwelling place or our refuge where He will protect us.

What your doing is "pigeonhole" us to your very specific statement, "The eternal God is "THE" eternal Spirit." On what basis should anyone believe your flawed opinion on what verses mean? God the Father is not the person of the Holy Spirit, period.

But, you know what really does you in with this little exercise of yours when you referred to Hebrews 9:14? Read the context. The writer starts out with a rhetorical question and the inference is drawn concering the superiority of the Son's sacrifice is more powerful in its effects as opposed to the sacrificing of animals etc. (vs13).

Christ offered Himself to God the Father as a perfect, unblemished sacrifice. This sacrifice was accomplished through the agency of the "eternal Spirit." So who's Spirit? It's a reference to Jesus' eternal nature in His sonship. In other words the superior effects of Christ's sacrifice is on the basis of His "inherent" Spirit" as the eternal Son. (Hebrews 7:16).

By means of offering His eternal life, "Spirit," He was able to cleanse the believer's conscience from "dead works," that is, reliance on one's own efforts to obtain merit before God (Hebrews 6:1). We are freed from bondage to this guilt. In short, you've got this all wrong, as usual.

In Him,
herman
 
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