The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

To demonstrate differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and what I believe, I am trying to identify statements that I WOULD affirm but Trinitarians would NOT affirm.

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


P.S. Here is how I see the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
To demonstrate differences between the doctrine of the Trinity and what I believe, I am trying to identify statements that I WOULD affirm but Trinitarians would NOT affirm.

So TRINITARIANS, would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


P.S. Here is how I see the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
The eternal SON was manifest in the flesh.
 
The eternal SON was manifest in the flesh.

I did not ask you to make a statement. I asked if you affirm or deny my statement.

So can you PLEASE answer the OP...


Would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 

johnny guitar

Active member
I did not ask you to make a statement. I asked if you affirm or deny my statement.

So can you PLEASE answer the OP...


Would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Yes, I affirm your statement.
Do you affirm my statement that the eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ.
 
Yes, I affirm your statement.
Do you affirm my statement that the eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ.

No. The Bible never uses the term "God The Son".

According to English grammar, adding an epitet to the end of the noun "God" would imply more than one God. So the Bible and I do not use the terms "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit". Instead the Bible refers to "the Son of God" and "the Spirit of God".

If you rephrase your statement, please also include the verses with the terms you are using.


So YOU confirm both of these statements...
The eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ.
The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

So would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 

johnny guitar

Active member
No. The Bible never uses the term "God The Son".

According to English grammar, adding an epitet to the end of the noun "God" would imply more than one God. So the Bible and I do not use the terms "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit". Instead the Bible refers to "the Son of God" and "the Spirit of God".

If you rephrase your statement, please also include the verses with the terms you are using.


So YOU confirm both of these statements...
The eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ.
The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

So would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded? I DO.

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 9:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
It was The SON who became flesh and NO ONE ELSE.
So I affirm BOTH statements.
The eternal Spirit in Hebrews 9:14 refers to The Holy Spirit.
 
It was The SON who became flesh and NO ONE ELSE.
So I affirm BOTH statements.
The eternal Spirit in Hebrews 9:14 refers to The Holy Spirit.

You forgot to answer the question...

Would YOU affirm the following statement exactly as worded?

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


I do.
 
Already answered.

This is a YES or NO question.

You seem to say YES when you say “I affirm BOTH statements.”

But you seem to say NO when you say “The eternal Spirit in Hebrews 9:14 refers to The Holy”.

To clarify, can you answer with a YES or NO.

Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 
Last edited:

johnny guitar

Active member
This is a YES or NO question.

You seem to say YES when you say “I affirm BOTH statements.”

But you seem to say NO when you say “The eternal Spirit in Hebrews 9:14 refers to The Holy”.

To clarify, can you answer with a YES or NO.

Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
NO! Jesus said God is A(NOT The)Spirit.
And Hebrews 9:14 refers to THE Holy Spirit.
 
NO! Jesus said God is A(NOT The)Spirit.
And Hebrews 9:14 refers to THE Holy Spirit.

Ok, then that is a big difference between the doctrine of the Trinity and my view.

I believe...
The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


Whereas Trinitarians believe...
The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from the eternal Spirit.



John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 
Last edited:
Ok, then that is a big difference between the doctrine of the Trinity and my view.

I believe...
The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


Whereas Trinitarians believe...
God is a Spirit distinct from the eternal Spirit.



John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

So TRINITARIANS believe...

The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from the eternal Spirit.

And TRINITARIANS believe...

The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.

So do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father.



John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Corinthians 8:6... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom areall things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
Ok, then that is a big difference between the doctrine of the Trinity and my view.

I believe...
The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


Whereas Trinitarians believe...
The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from the eternal Spirit.



John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Strawman. The eternal Spirit is The Holy Spirit who IS Himself God.
This is a YES or NO question.

You seem to say YES when you say “I affirm BOTH statements.”

But you seem to say NO when you say “The eternal Spirit in Hebrews 9:14 refers to The Holy”.

To clarify, can you answer with a YES or NO.

Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

The eternal God is the eternal Spirit.


John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Hebrews 8:14... How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
NO!
Next question........................................
 
Jesus said God is A(NOT The)Spirit.

The eternal Spirit is The Holy Spirit who IS Himself God.

Next question........................................


Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."



I disagree with the statement.

John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Corinthians 8:6... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom areall things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."



I disagree with the statement.

John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Deuteronomy 33:27... The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

1 Corinthians 8:6... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom areall things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I also disagree.
The eternal God IS: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
So YOU confirm both of these statements...
The eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ.
The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus.
It was The SON who became flesh and NO ONE ELSE.
So I affirm BOTH statements.

Do you agree with this statement exactly as worded...

"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."


I disagree with the statement.
I also disagree.
The eternal God IS: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

So you AGREE that...
"The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus."

But you DISAGREE that...
"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."

But that would mean...
"The eternal God who manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus IS NOT distinct from God, the Father."

Would you like to change any of your previous answers?

So far you have AGREED with these statement...
"The eternal Spirit is The Holy Spirit who IS Himself God."
"The eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ."
"The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus."
"The eternal God IS: Father, Son, Holy Spirit."

And you have DISAGREED with these statements...
"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."
"The eternal God is the eternal Spirit."
 

johnny guitar

Active member
So you AGREE that...
"The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus."

But you DISAGREE that...
"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."

But that would mean...
"The eternal God who manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus IS NOT distinct from God, the Father."

Would you like to change any of your previous answers?

So far you have AGREED with these statement...
"The eternal Spirit is The Holy Spirit who IS Himself God."
"The eternal God The Son manifested as the Man Jesus Christ."
"The eternal God manifest in the flesh as the man Christ Jesus."
"The eternal God IS: Father, Son, Holy Spirit."

And you have DISAGREED with these statements...
"The eternal God is a Spirit distinct from God, the Father."
"The eternal God is the eternal Spirit."
Since The eternal God The SON manifested in the flesh He IS distinct from The Father.
Still playing word games I see.
NO need to change any of my previous answers.
 
Top