The Eucharist

[jonathan_hili]

that is true. where at the last supper does Jesus say that if they don't do that (breaking of bread) they won't be saved? or that if they do that it will save them?

Since the Last Supper is part of the covenant Jesus establishes, if you ordinarily don't participate in it - as Paul says, it is a participation in the body and blood of Christ - then you will not have entered into the covenant and been saved. Likewise, Jesus says similar things in John 6.

 

[1Thess521]

Since the Last Supper is part of the covenant Jesus establishes, if you ordinarily don't participate in it - as Paul says, it is a participation in the body and blood of Christ - then you will not have entered into the covenant and been saved. Likewise, Jesus says similar things in John 6.

??? did miss somebody dying at the Last Supper

The word of God says that covenants require a death
Hebrew 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."

 

[jonathan_hili]

??? did miss somebody dying at the Last Supper

The word of God says that covenants require a death
Hebrew 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."

It seems you missed the connection between the Last Supper covenant meal and the death of the lamb. Jesus' Passover begins at the Last Supper and ends on the cross.

 

[1Thess521]

It seems you missed the connection between the Last Supper covenant meal and the death of the lamb. Jesus' Passover begins at the Last Supper and ends on the cross.

" it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.""

 

[jonathan_hili]

" it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.""

Whether it's in force or not isn't really the issue; it's whether they all form part of the same covenant ritual.

 

[mica]

Since the Last Supper is part of the covenant Jesus establishes, if you ordinarily don't participate in it - as Paul says, it is a participation in the body and blood of Christ -

yes it is - for those who ARE His.

then you will not have entered into the covenant and been saved.

taking part in the remembrance of it is nothing but munching on a piece of bread - to those who are NOT saved. You don't participate in the body and blood of Christ unless you are saved. all catholics do is chew a wafer that is like a thin piece of cardboard. They are not participating in the body and blood of Christ.

catholics don't even believe that it is His shed blood that saves them. They believe the RCC and what it teaches, that they have to 'work' for it. It also teaches catholics have to submit to the pope - scripture says that nowhere. Believers submit to Christ alone.

your pope can't save you nor can the RCC/CC.

Likewise, Jesus says similar things in John 6.

post the verse

 

[mica]

jonathan_hili said:
It seems you missed the connection between the Last Supper covenant meal and the death of the lamb. Jesus' Passover begins at the Last Supper and ends on the cross.

believers don't miss the connection. you'll know it also when you're born again. There was no new covenant until His death. He wasn't dead at the last supper.

Did those at the last supper know what would happen to Him soon? Did they know what He was talking about?

 

[jonathan_hili]

yes it is - for those who ARE His.

Okay, no disputes here.

taking part in the remembrance of it is nothing but munching on a piece of bread - to those who are NOT saved. You don't participate in the body and blood of Christ unless you are saved. all catholics do is chew a wafer that is like a thin piece of cardboard. They are not participating in the body and blood of Christ.

catholics don't even believe that it is His shed blood that saves them. They believe the RCC and what it teaches, that they have to 'work' for it. It also teaches catholics have to submit to the pope - scripture says that nowhere. Believers submit to Christ alone.

your pope can't save you nor can the RCC/CC.

I'll agree that if you partake in the Eucharist and you are not saved, this is a bad thing.

post the verse

[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

 

[jonathan_hili]

believers don't miss the connection. you'll know it also when you're born again. There was no new covenant until His death. He wasn't dead at the last supper.

It's part of the same covenant ritual. It's like saying, there's no new baby until the entire body comes out of the mother.

Did those at the last supper know what would happen to Him soon? Did they know what He was talking about?

We don't really know. There are some indications that they did (e.g. Peter said he would die with Jesus, Jesus said someone would betray him), and there are some indications that they didn't.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Why are you seem to be so bent on denying the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist? This can be nothing else than the work of the father of lies.

Because... my Bible doesn't say one word about 'another Christ'. It also doesn't say one word about Hocus Pocus words turning sawdust and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

It violates the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ died once for the elect. He rose once for the elect.

 

[mica]

It's part of the same covenant ritual. It's like saying, there's no new baby until the entire body comes out of the mother.

that's a catholic's twist on it. The baby isn't born until its body is out of the mother.

catholic's spend a lot of time and energy twisting God's word - and then believing that twisted outcome.

We don't really know. There are some indications that they did (e.g. Peter said he would die with Jesus, Jesus said someone would betray him), and there are some indications that they didn't.

believer's know.

post that verse.

post where those indications are in scripture and what they are.

 

[ding]

if Christ walked in a sat in the front pew of a Cathodic Church : would the Mass need to continue in that Church?
What happens during Mass that it would still need to continue ; even if Christ was sitting there.

Christ is present during every Mass.

 

[RayneBeau]

Lots of things in catholicism are necessary for salvation. Which is just one of the reasons its a false religion. Unless of course you are invincibly ignorant; ccc 1260, then you don't need any of it. Another false gospel. Btw, how many other religions can say they have more than one false gospel? Rome has at least two. One for the tried and true faithful, and one for those that have no clue about Jesus or the church. I'm sure the devil is quite impressed with his handiwork.

Roman Catholicism's teaching makes the Eucharist seem like it's Christ's "Incarnation" all over again.

 

[ding]

Because... my Bible doesn't say one word about 'another Christ'. It also doesn't say one word about Hocus Pocus words turning sawdust and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

It violates the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ died once for the elect. He rose once for the elect.

Your Bible says that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ.

It is not just the RCC that teaches the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, it is also all the Orthodox churches and Lutheran churches.

It was also taught and practiced all the way back to the very early church, by those who knew the apostles, who were disciples of the apostles.

 

[ding]

Roman Catholicism's teaching makes the Eucharist seem like it's Christ's "Incarnation" all over again.

Why would you say that? Is this from something you read or did someone tell you?

 

[RayneBeau]

Yes and no, it depends on the situation.

Though ultimately yes - the Eucharist is Christ. If you cannot accept Christ into your life, you will not be saved.

But, if the Roman Catholic eats Christ then he is given a 'pledge' of future glory according to Roman Catholicism, true or false?

 

[mica]

Whether it's in force or not isn't really the issue; it's whether they all form part of the same covenant ritual.

it isn't for catholics. They've got the RCC, pope, Mary, wafer and works to be done!

 

[jonathan_hili]

that's a catholic's twist on it. The baby isn't born until its body is out of the mother.

catholic's spend a lot of time and energy twisting God's word - and then believing that twisted outcome.

Maybe the baby isn't born until the birth is complete, but does that mean there is no baby when it's only partially born?

believer's know.

post that verse.

From Matthew:
[31] Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of me this night; for it is written, `I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'
[32] But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee."
[33] Peter declared to him, "Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away."
[34] Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, this very night, before the cock crows, you will deny me three times."
[35] Peter said to him, "Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you." And so said all the disciples.

post where those indications are in scripture and what they are.

From Mark:
[31] for he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, "The Son of man will be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him; and when he is killed, after three days he will rise."
[32] But they did not understand the saying, and they were afraid to ask him.

 

[jonathan_hili]

But, if the Roman Catholic eats Christ then he is given a 'pledge' of future glory according to Roman Catholicism, true or false?

If you mean, does eating the Eucharist give a Catholic spiritual life in Christ, then that depends if they are in a state of grace or not. Anyone can partake in the Eucharist unworthily.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Your Bible says that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ.

It is not just the RCC that teaches the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, it is also all the Orthodox churches and Lutheran churches.

It was also taught and practiced all the way back to the very early church, by those who knew the apostles, who were disciples of the apostles.

More made up nonsense. Jesus said 'his flesh' not some hocus pocus recreation.

I don't care what other denominations do. We cannot eat Jesus.