The Eucharist

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Yep MY logic is spot on. Your logic is faulty, you don't know the difference between God's plan and just plain ignoring evil. You are the one who does not understand before Pentecost and after Pentecost. Your the one that thinks Jesus would tolerate evil priests and sinful behaviour throughout the centuries. He would never allow children to be harmed.
You must be referring to someone else
 

balshan

Well-known member
You must be referring to someone else
No arch I am referring to you. You throw out the insults all the time and in that last insult to my logic showed exactly what I just posted. You don't know the difference between God's plan and just allowing evil to flourish. Pre Pentecost and post Pentecost. In fact, any RCs who brings up Judas and the 12 to prove it is okay for their institution to not weed out the evil proves that very point.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
No arch I am referring to you. You throw out the insults all the time and in that last insult to my logic showed exactly what I just posted. You don't know the difference between God's plan and just allowing evil to flourish. Pre Pentecost and post Pentecost. In fact, any RCs who brings up Judas and the 12 to prove it is okay for their institution to not weed out the evil proves that very point.
ahhhh, no
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Since the Last Supper is part of the covenant Jesus establishes, if you ordinarily don't participate in it - as Paul says, it is a participation in the body and blood of Christ - then you will not have entered into the covenant and been saved. Likewise, Jesus says similar things in John 6.
The Roman Catholic Church derives It's false teaching of 'transubstantiation' from their errant interpretations of the passages in the Gospels dealing with the Last Supper and also from John Chapter 6 where Jesus speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
The Roman Catholic Church derives It's false teaching of 'transubstantiation' from their errant interpretations of the passages in the Gospels dealing with the Last Supper and also from John Chapter 6 where Jesus speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood.
Does the Orthodox Church derive it from there too? And the Coptic Church? Oh, and practically all Christians from the first centuries?

Even Luther was not willing to go so far as to deny the Real Presence.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ. It is the Passover meal of the nc, the spiritual food for our journey to the Celestial city, the heavenly Jerusalem. If is definitely a important part of our journey but I am not sure I would consider it a pledge.
Regarding your beliefs about the body and blood of Christ, I think you need to take a lesson from Nicodemus when Jesus spoke to him about the necessity of being born again. That Jewish religious teacher misunderstood the spiritual truth as something physical. So, he asked Jesus "How can I return to my mother's womb and be born again?" In a similar manner, the Roman Catholic Church misinterprets Jesus' words in John 6. The RCC interprets them in a way that is completely independent of their context and assigns a physical and literal meaning to what was intended to be spiritual and figurative. Jesus Himself said, "The Words I have spoken to you are spiritual. The flesh profits nothing." By taking the verses out of context, the RCC falls into the same error as Nicodemus did, giving a physical interpretation to a spiritual truth.
 

mica

Well-known member
Regarding your beliefs about the body and blood of Christ, I think you need to take a lesson from Nicodemus when Jesus spoke to him about the necessity of being born again. That Jewish religious teacher misunderstood the spiritual truth as something physical. So, he asked Jesus "How can I return to my mother's womb and be born again?" In a similar manner, the Roman Catholic Church misinterprets Jesus' words in John 6. The RCC interprets them in a way that is completely independent of their context and assigns a physical and literal meaning to what was intended to be spiritual and figurative.
just as those 'disciples' in John 6 did, those who left Jesus. Jesus said He knew they weren't believers.

Jesus Himself said, "The Words I have spoken to you are spiritual. The flesh profits nothing." By taking the verses out of context, the RCC falls into the same error as Nicodemus did, giving a physical interpretation to a spiritual truth.
catholics don't know the spiritual. they don't understand it and probably never will unless they're born again. Most will probably never be because the road to Jesus is narrow and catholics like that wide road.
 
D

ding

Guest
Regarding your beliefs about the body and blood of Christ, I think you need to take a lesson from Nicodemus when Jesus spoke to him about the necessity of being born again. That Jewish religious teacher misunderstood the spiritual truth as something physical. So, he asked Jesus "How can I return to my mother's womb and be born again?" In a similar manner, the Roman Catholic Church misinterprets Jesus' words in John 6. The RCC interprets them in a way that is completely independent of their context and assigns a physical and literal meaning to what was intended to be spiritual and figurative. Jesus Himself said, "The Words I have spoken to you are spiritual. The flesh profits nothing." By taking the verses out of context, the RCC falls into the same error as Nicodemus did, giving a physical interpretation to a spiritual truth.
So your interpretation of scripture is your final authority and not scripture alone.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
just as those 'disciples' in John 6 did, those who left Jesus. Jesus said He knew they weren't believers.


catholics don't know the spiritual. they don't understand it and probably never will unless they're born again. Most will probably never be because the road to Jesus is narrow and catholics like that wide road.
Perhaps a majority of Roman Catholics don't want to even attempt to read and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding of that entire passage that runs from John 6: 22-65, which would plainly show them that any interpretation of Jesus' words contained in verses 53 & 54 would have to include the whole context in which those words are found. Without allowing the Holy Spirit to interpret the words of Jesus and without careful reference to their context, is bound to give a meaning to His words that He never intended.
It is important also to read and examine John 6: vs. 40, vs. 47 and vs.54 which are all clearly intended to be equivalent statements. The terms Jesus uses to "eat" and to "drink" illustrate what it means to believe - and to believe in Christ results in eternal life and in being raised up on the last day. We receive eternal life by exercising faith in Christ where we receive Him not physically, but spiritually into our hearts and He becomes our very life: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." John 1:12
 
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leonard03782

Well-known member
........ God does not hold people accountable for things they could not otherwise know or do.
Yes HE does.

Joh 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 1:19 KJV Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Yes HE does.

Joh 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 1:19 KJV Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Ummm there are passages from both those books that support my point that: "God does not hold people accountable for things they could not otherwise know or do".

John 9:
[39] Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."
[40] Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"
[41] Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, `We see,' your guilt remains.

Romans 2:
[14] When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
[15] They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
[16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
That is great. I hope you keep studying and growing deeper into your faith. A "warning" though, by following this path you will eventually become Catholic.
and yet, I used to be Catholic


Catholic Author Peter Kreeft

How do I resolve the Reformation? Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children.

and

The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Are these Scripture passages all equivalent statements?

John 6:40 - "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life: and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 - "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."

John 6:54 - "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
 
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