The faithful servant

[dberrie2020]

dberrie2020 said: In His Atonement--all men are now born saved.

Then all those verses about becoming saved and being saved in the future are meaningless.

How so? Do the scriptures not testify little children will reach a point of accountability, and up to that time, they are heirs-- the same as the servant?

Galatians 4:1-2---King James Version
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

dberrie2020 said: Are you claiming babies are born condemned?

Yep.

What a sad theology. God condemning little babies????

Maybe God has a plan for prenatals and infants who die prior to hearing the gospel or prior to developing the cognitive faculties to assent to the gospel but they are not reported in scripture AND they would be the minority population.

It's called the Atonement of Jesus Christ--where God dies for the sins of the world--and all men are absolved from the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall. All men now justified of life, or--all have the opportunity to inherit eternal life, being absolved of the condemnation of the Fall:

Romans 5:18--King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now--one answers for their own choices.

And since little babies are heirs, the same as servants, and have not reached the "time appointed of the father"--then they are covered under His Atonement.

For me--it's hard to believe anyone would believe God came to die for mankind, that all might have life--and then--condemn little babies for something they can't even make a choice about.

 

[dberrie2020]

Yes, but all men are not judged ONLY by their works. I've already covered this with you. At no point in these different threads have I ever argued works are irrelevant and not something judged.

All men are judged according to their works--and that for life or damnation. That's where the theology you postulate fails:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Cor. 6:9-10 is true. Your reading of it may not be true but the verses themselves are true. You understand Paul himself had been an idolator, and abuser of mankind, and a murderous conspirator, yes?

Wasn't that prior to his conversion and the remission of sins of past?

Acts 22:16---King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

So--could you explain for us how anyone could avoid this condemnation without obeying the commandments?

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So--does that apply to everyone--even those who claim Christianity?

1 Corinthians 9:26-27---King James Version
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

God has mercy on whom He has mercy, and it does not depend on the will or the works of the creature, but on the will, purpose, and work of God.

The scriptures beg to differ:

Romans 6:22---King James Version
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[dberrie2020]

Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

God does not work things like fornication, idolatry, adultery, etc. in His people's lives. Like all sin, those are works of the flesh.

I agree--but how does that break the link between God's grace and one's obedience to Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The person who is saved is saved by grace, through faith for works,

The scriptures have it a a faith with works:

James 2:18-26---King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

and those works for which that person has been saved are works that God had already planned for that person to perform prior to God saving that person.

Again--how does that break the link between one's obedience to Christ--and His grace unto life?

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Good works are the purpose of salvation!

Which salvation goes to them which obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Josheb--those are the scriptures one must eliminate in order to justify a theology which preaches there are no works necessary in order to obtain eternal life.

 

[brotherofJared]

This is the problem of "onlyism."

Making up words as you go... Typical. They are just by all that they do. There is no only in that. One cannot be judged by what they believe unless they act on that belief.

 

[dberrie2020]

Making up words as you go... Typical.

And making up a theology as they go along, IMO.

 

[brotherofJared]

That verse was written to Christians, not non-believers.

Where would you get an idea like that. Is it arrogance? U think Christians only die once? LOL. It says men, not a subset of men.

 

[Josheb]

Is it arrogance? U think Christians only die once?

I am willing to discuss my views with anyone but trolls.

I do not trade posts with people who are rude and/or disrespectful. I don't trade posts with posters who don't know how to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. Neither do I trade posts with posters who can't and/or won't keep the posts op-relevant. If you think you can abide by those measures then start over and ask me what you'd like politely, respectfully, topically, op-relevantly, and keeping my person out of it. Otherwise, all the posts bearing your handle will be ignored (other than perhaps to correct errors for the benefit of the posters here who do know how to post op-relevantly with manners and respect.

Start over.

 

[brotherofJared]

I am willing to discuss my views with anyone but trolls

So says the troll. You're not discussing anything. You're just making off-handed comments without even thinking about what you:re say. Case in point, the passage in question isn't just to Christians. Everyone dies once. The second death is simply an eternal separation from God. Everyone will be resurrected and remain resurrected forever. That's part of the free gift. We were all separated from God when we were born into mortality. We all will be brought back into the presence of God after we die. That is the judgment. Some of us, mostly Christians or so-called Christians will then be separated from God forever that is the second death. It is not a bodily death, it is death to all that is good, holy and righteous; no light whatsoever.

 

[Josheb]

I agree--but how does that break the link between God's grace and one's obedience to Jesus Christ?

I did not say it did, and if you think I am saying there is no link between God's grace and the Christian's obedience to Chris then you've misunderstood everything I have posted.

The scriptures have it a a faith with works:

Yes, faith begets faithfulness.

Which salvation goes to them which obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

To whom was that verse written?

About whom was that verse written?

 

[dberrie2020]

I did not say it did, and if you think I am saying there is no link between God's grace and the Christian's obedience to Chris then you've misunderstood everything I have posted.

What acts of obedience do you link with one obtaining eternal life?

dberrie2020 said: Which salvation goes to them which obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

About whom was that verse written?

Those who do His commandments. That has God's grace unto life connected to them which obey His commandments.

It violates the theology postulated here by the critics.

 

[Josheb]

What acts of obedience do you link with one obtaining eternal life?

Acts of obedience is not all that is required.

Those who do His commandments.

Doing commands is irrelevant to the other criteria.

It violates the theology postulated here by the critics.

I told you before: I don't care what these supposed "critics" argue. I am the one with whom you're having this conversation and 1) you'll either be able to discuss what I bring to bear in this op or you won't, and 2) I'll not have my views measured by others. I don't care what ricky, Lucy, Fred, Ethel, Bert or Ernie say. What I am telling you is scripture as written and plainly read. It's not the views of others. It's not theology.

It is scripture.

So,

Where are these atoned-for people who do not have eternal life?
Why don't you know what the other criteria are?
To whom and about whom was Rev. 22:14 written?

 

[Josheb]

All are saved according to the resurrection. Anyone who passes through the flames--does not have the Blood of Christ applied to them.

You'll have to forgive my confusion because I'm not sure which tread the issue of your arguing in one place not everyone is tested and, in another place, arguing all are tested, but here's one of the examples in which you've argued against Christians being tested. I've quoted only this one sentence because it's the most salient, but the larger exchange shows you arguing against Christians being judged. The man in 1 Corinthians 3 is building on the foundation of Christ. It must either be conceded he is a Christ to whom the blood of Christ has been applied, or you need to explain who a person might be able to build on the foundation of Christ absent Christ's blood.... and....

Where might we find these Christ-foundation builders who also lack Christ's blood.?





HOWEVER, I don't really want to belabor these points with you here and now. What I do want is a clarification of your position on who gets judged and what are the criteria other than works.

 

[dberrie2020]

Acts of obedience is not all that is required.

But what acts of obedience to Jesus Christ do you associate with His grace unto life?

Doing commands is irrelevant to the other criteria.

The scriptures seem to disagree:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

So--what criteria are you referring to?

I told you before: I don't care what these supposed "critics" argue.

You seem to argue the same party line they do. Josheb--you are one of the critics I am referring to.

Where are these atoned-for people who do not have eternal life?

That's a good question. And following the Atonement--that would depend on what choices each individual makes, as all men will be judged according to their works--and that for life or damnation.

The Atonement absolved all men of the condemnation of the Fall. Babies included. It did give all the opportunity to inherit eternal life.

To whom and about whom was Rev. 22:14 written?

It was about those who do His commandments:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Josheb]

What acts of obedience do you link with one obtaining eternal life?

You're doing that thing where you ignore what others post and you ask them questions. You want everyone to answer your question while you refuse to answer theirs, and when you do answer their questions, you do so wrongly or selectively. Proof? I said there is more required than acts of obedience and in response you ask about acts of obedience. I asked two questions and you answer only one.


1) To whom was that verse written?

2) About whom was that verse written?

To whom AND about whom was that verse written?

Those who do His commandments. That has God's grace unto life connected to them which obey His commandments.

No, the book of Revelation was written TO God's "bondservants." It is plainly stated in the opening verse of the book. The book was not written to anyone else, and it was not written for anyone else. The book also concludes with that exact same, singular identifier. God, "sent His angel to show to His bondservants the things which must soon take place." The book was written to God's bondservants, and He plainly states that the beginning and the end of the book. EVERYTHING in the book is to, for, and about events His bondservants would "heed."

So verse 22:14 is about the bondservants, and NOT anyone else. The verse states, "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter by the gates into the city." SO, who is it that washes their robes? There's only one other place in the book of Revelation where any robe-washing is mentioned.

Revelation 7:13-14
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The ones who came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the lamb. These are God's bondservants.

Not there's also another qualifier in verse 14, the "right to the tree of life." There are a couple of times where a "right" to something related to the tree of life is mentioned in the NT. One of the would be John 1:12-13,

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

This particular pair of verses undermines everything you've argued in all these threads where you and I have been trading posts because this verse explicitly states the right to sonship is NOT based on the will of flesh or man, but the will of God. This is exactly the same argument Paul made in Romans 9 (which has already been covered). God's mercy does NOT depend upon how a man wills or works, but on the will and purpose of God and God alone.



So... the evidence AGIN sows you're not reading scripture correctly. On several occasions you have mis-identified the salient audience or the group being discussed.

It violates the theology postulated here by the critics.

And here AGAIN you're bringing up people who are not involved in this discussion. I have tolerated it for a time these last few days without prior mention because I am familiar with your modus operand and felt like putting up with it. It's now become tiresome. So consider this your second "warning," or my second request for change.

Titus 3:9-11
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

That is a command you should obey, so heed t because when you don't you again undermine your entire position. You cannot argue something you constantly violate and expect either to be consider valid or veracious.

I won't ask again. Please comment on what I actually post and do it in an op-relevant manner, and answer the specific questions asked when asked. Your collaboration will be appreciated and commended. Everything else will be ignored.

 

[brotherofJared]

I do not trade posts with people who are rude and/or disrespectful.

And yet, here you are.

 

[dberrie2020]

You're doing that thing where you ignore what others post and you ask them questions. You want everyone to answer your question while you refuse to answer theirs, and when you do answer their questions, you do so wrongly or selectively. Proof? I said there is more required than acts of obedience and in response you ask about acts of obedience. I asked two questions and you answer only one.

I suppose that beats asking a question and receiving no answer at all. If I answered one--then you can also.

So--What acts of obedience do you link with one obtaining eternal life?

No, the book of Revelation was written TO God's "bondservants." It is plainly stated in the opening verse of the book. The book was not written to anyone else, and it was not written for anyone else.

And how does that cover up or cancel out the testimony connecting keeping the commandments and the tree of life?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The book also concludes with that exact same, singular identifier. God, "sent His angel to show to His bondservants the things which must soon take place." The book was written to God's bondservants, and He plainly states that the beginning and the end of the book. EVERYTHING in the book is to, for, and about events His bondservants would "heed."

So verse 22:14 is about the bondservants, and NOT anyone else. The verse states, "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter by the gates into the city." SO, who is it that washes their robes?

Those who keep His commandments:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

How is that any different than this testimony?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

There's only one other place in the book of Revelation where any robe-washing is mentioned.

Revelation 7:13-14
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The ones who came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the lamb. These are God's bondservants.

Not there's also another qualifier in verse 14, the "right to the tree of life." There are a couple of times where a "right" to something related to the tree of life is mentioned in the NT. One of the would be John 1:12-13,

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

This particular pair of verses undermines everything you've argued in all these threads where you and I have been trading posts because this verse explicitly states the right to sonship is NOT based on the will of flesh or man, but the will of God.

And why isn't it the will of God to extend His grace to them which walk in His light?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So... the evidence AGIN sows you're not reading scripture correctly. On several occasions you have mis-identified the salient audience or the group being discussed.

But I didn't miss the connection between keeping the commandments and the tree of life.

Nor have I missed that connection here:

Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[dberrie2020]

HOWEVER, I don't really want to belabor these points with you here and now. What I do want is a clarification of your position on who gets judged and what are the criteria other than works.

Works (obedience to Jesus Christ)--is the criteria one is judged according to, Christians included:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those works are integral to one's faith in Jesus Christ, as a faith without works is a dead faith.

IOW--those who obey the gospel of Jesus Christ--are the ones who avoid condemnation, and are the ones who have faith in Christ:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The position of the critics here, you included--seems to be--that there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ which is necessary to obtain eternal life.

That's the theology I believe is found in satan himself, IE--the exclusion of all works(acts of obedience to Jesus Christ)-- in obtaining eternal life, and the very theology I am interested in addressing, as if that is true--then the rest of the story lies in the wind, for those who postulate the faith without works theology, as to obtaining eternal life.

The LDS believe the scriptures above--and those scriptures are a reflection of their theology.

Care to address that issue?

 

[Josheb]

I suppose that beats asking a question and receiving no answer at all. If I answered one--then you can also.

Thank you for your time. I have answered ALL your questions (although you may not have recognized it) and few of mine have been answered. Your response, "I suppose that beats..." is non sequitur and an example of the problem to be solved! The problem is made worse when you move the goalposts, treating what was posted as if it didn't happen. Asking, "How does it cover-up or cancel....?" is the problem to be solved! No one said it covered up or canceled anything. What it does is show you've mis-identified the applicable group. What it shows is you lack of exegesis. What it shows is you've built your position on what is either a mistake, or a lie. If it was a mistake, something that happened inadvertently because of a simple lapse in correctly identifying the salient group then that is an easily corrected matter. The correct response would be, "Yes, Josh, I see that scripture does, in fact, identify those people as bondservants and people to whom the blood of Christ has all ALREADY been applied, and not as I had posted some group of people who earned their identification ONLY by deeds." A willful disregard for the plain truth of scripture is an entirely different matter and that proves germane to this conversation in two ways: one it is an incomplete and thereby incorrect view of scripture AND it becomes an act of disobedience by the guy arguing for ONLY acts of disobedience!

In other words.....

Every single time you make a mistake with scripture it is incumbent upon you to acknowledge that error because the acknowledgment is an act of obedience!

Similarly, every occasion where you mishandle scripture is an act of disobedience. There are unintended act of disobedience and intended acts of disobedience. Both need redress. When you do not redress them then a third type of act of disobedience is committed and you are proving yourself a hypocrite. Every single one of those verses you've quoted in every single one of these four or five different threads works against you personally, not just your posts.

It is really quite important.

Method AND content, not just content.

Because of your position - the position ONLY acts are germane - you were at a disadvantage before you ever joined CARM, AND your own position sets you up for hypocrisy and failure. There is a way out, a way to reconcile all of this, but you're going to have to let go of the implicit "ONLY."


Revelation 22:14 is about people who are already Christians, already bondservants, already have the rights the to which the adopted sons are entitled. Their obedience is not in question. it is a stated fact, not a predicate condition. That is not always the case. Some of the verses you have quoted are predicated statements, but this one is not.

The correct response is to acknowledge that fact.

When you do not, you commit acts of disobedience and undermine your own position.

Take greater care with your end of this discussion.

I suppose that beats asking a question and receiving no answer at all. If I answered one--then you can also.

But do it in the next occasion we trade posts because you're being obtuse here, repetitively so, and I have no further tolerance for it. The repeated subterfuge proves you culpable of Titus 3:9-11 and in obedience to that passage I will depart from your disobedience in this exchange.

And I offer to you the example of SeventhDay in the "Abraham's belief" thread, because that guy demonstrates an ability to take things one small portion at a time, examine scripture what it specifically, explicitly states and what it specifically does NOT explicitly state, and build from consensus.


You should try that sometime.

As far as this op goes, grace is a gift and not a wage. That does not mean certain aspects of salvation are not predicated upon good works, but it does mean grace is not. Quoting a bunch of proof-texted verses that mention obedience and deeds doesn't change those facts. It only shows disobedience and a remarkable blindness and further lack of repentance to that disobedience. Ditch the implicit "ONLY" and a vast wealth of truth will be revealed.

We are not saved by deeds. We are saved for good works. Works are not the ONLY measure of our salvation. Faith begets faithfulness.

 

[dberrie2020]

Revelation 22:14 is about people who are already Christians, already bondservants, already have the rights the to which the adopted sons are entitled.

Whoever you believe Rev22:14 is about--it has God extending His salvational grace to them which keep His commandments:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

That's what the scriptures testify to--keeping His commandments is connected to not only His grace--but to being a Christian:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That defies the theology which the critics assume here.

Their obedience is not in question. it is a stated fact, not a predicate condition.

Yes, Josheb--walking in the light is conditional to receiving of His Blood unto the cleansing of sin:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

"if" is a conditional conjunction--which sets up a conditional clause above.

As far as this op goes, grace is a gift and not a wage.

One can call it whatever they want--but the OP has God extending His grace to them which magnify His gifts:

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

That is His grace according to works.

That does not mean certain aspects of salvation are not predicated upon good works,

Not only "certain aspects"--but the difference between life and damnation:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Quoting a bunch of proof-texted verses that mention obedience and deeds doesn't change those facts.

I agree--it establishes obedience and God's grace is connected--when referring to a personal reception of eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

We are not saved by deeds.

No one has claimed otherwise. We are saved by God's grace--which goes to them which obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Works are not the ONLY measure of our salvation.

But they are a point where one is judged unto either life or wrath:

Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Again--That defies the theology of the critics here.

 

[Josheb]

Whoever you believe Rev22:14 is about...

Another FAIL.

It isn't about what I believe, or "whoever you believe..." It is about what scripture actually states. These conversations are fruitless when anyone repeatedly refuses to read scripture as written, repeatedly refuses to accept the correction of scripture (not another poster), repeatedly attempts straw men and other fallacies (like the problem is one of a poster's "belief"), and repeatedly refuses to acknowledge the simplest of truths (like Revelation's audience being the blood-covered bondservant), and repeatedly changes the point of discussion without resolving any of them.

Titus 3:9-11 ESV
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

You have the ability to do better. I know that because there were places where you would post "Agreed," in response to points in which we have agreement. When it comes to matters like "onlyism," and "audience identifiers" that does not happen for some reason, even though the matter is objectively plain for all to read. Even atheists would agree to some of these matters. Presumably, we share the same goals,

Ephesians 4:11-16
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

You and I are not leaders over one another, but there is no reason we cannot pursue those same goals.



So..... I'm moving on.