The fallacious analogy of the drowning man

TibiasDad said:
But Jesus is talking about the same people that you are referring to. He says we are sick and need a physician. All analogies fall short at some point and we need be mindful to not carry the literalism too far.

Doug
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The sick are the regenerate, those who have been made [by the Spirit] to see their own weakness and inability, helplessness to help themselves. They certainly don't believe their freewill can help them.
 
brightfame52 said:
The sick are the regenerate, those who have been made [by the Spirit] to see their own weakness and inability, helplessness to help themselves. They certainly don't believe their freewill can help them.
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LOT the regenerate are supposed to be those made well

Your theology is all backwards
 
brightfame52 said:
The sick are the regenerate, those who have been made [by the Spirit] to see their own weakness and inability, helplessness to help themselves. They certainly don't believe their freewill can help them.
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That's not what Jesus said: The analogy of the sick and the healthy corresponds directly to the righteous and the sinner!

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
That's not what Jesus said: The analogy of the sick and the healthy corresponds directly to the righteous and the sinner!

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17


Doug
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Yeah it's pretty clear. Funny how the waters always turn muddy before a Calvinist gets a chance to read the verse.
 
Brightframe,

In your theology, when does regeneration happen? I understand the Calvinist position, but I am not fully understanding your position.

Thanks,

Sota
 
Sota said:
Brightframe,

In your theology, when does regeneration happen? I understand the Calvinist position, but I am not fully understanding your position.

Thanks,

Sota
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It happens when God causes it to happen according to His Sovereign purpose. It's like when Jesus said Jn 3:7-8

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 
Chalcedon said:
who is in need of a life preserver is unbiblical.

We have heard this used by the anti-calvinist crowd for years. The man is drowning and several people in boats pass by and then when he gets to heaven he asks when did you try and save me.

The One who rescues is God who extends the life preserver to the man to "save " him. The man to be saved must reach out and accept the life preserver or else he drowns. They correlate this analogy to the gospel message and receiving it to be saved. But there is a huge flaw in this analogy.

How can a dead man in the water be saved ?
How does a dead man grab the life preserver ?

Fallen men are not "drowning" they are already drowned ( DEAD ) in their trespasses and sins. They are dead in sin, not alive. They are spiritually dead. They are already under the water at the bottom of the river, lake or ocean. They have been dead for years or decades.


Matthew 8:22 - "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."

Romans 11:15 - "For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

John 11:25 - "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"

Luke 15:24 - "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry."

Luke 9:60- But Jesus told him, "Let the dead bury their own dead. You, however, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 2:5- And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

hope this helps !!!
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Yep! Amen!
Good post
 
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