The False Claims of Constantine Simonides Regarding Sinaiticus

Alexander Lykurgos: Revelations about the Simonides-Dindorfsche Uranios. Fritzsche, Leipzig 1856. https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=3X2B-kaniakC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Simonides response and defense of authenticity (1856)

Ueber die Echtheit des Uranius
Constantine Simonides
https://books.google.com/books?id=ALHKaDsZzt0C

More info:

Die getäuschte Wissenschaft: Ein Genie betrügt Europa – Konstantinos Simonides (2017)
Simonides in England: A Forger's Progress
Pasquale Massimo Pinto
https://books.google.com/books?id=go7fDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA116
 
I am retired now but when I was alive I was a lawyer, and I learned that much can depend on a witness's credibility.
Simonides has none.
Tischendorf has considerable credibility and his presentation of the Sinaiticus is very strong evidence.
I cannot understand why this argument keeps bouncing around when it is painfully obvious that Simonides cannot be believed.
 
Tischendorf has considerable credibility and his presentation of the Sinaiticus is very strong evidence.

Nope.
Tischendorf was clearly a thief and liar in everything around Sinaiticus, in 1844 and 1859.

He even made up a vain-glorious fantasy of saving the leaves from fire!
Leaves he stole, from intact quires. What a con!

And he pulled that con 15 years after the event, accidentally leaving a clear trail that it was all a con. The letter to his brother in 1844 saying simply that the letters came into his possession (Kevin McGrane gets this right about the saved from fire con.) Then we have the letter fretting about Simonides, written exactly when Tischendorf was en route to the monastery.

Any many dupes repeat this saved from fire absurdity even today.

Simonides had nothing to gain by pointing out that he had been involved in Sinaiticus. Even if accepted, his ownership of the ms. would be worthless, since it was only about 20 years old. However, he knew that it had no provenance, it could not have any, since it did not exist before 1840.

If Sinaiticus authenticity is to lie on Tischendorf credibility, then it is a big lie.

The actual manuscript cries out ... "not ancient".
This is confirmed by Hermas and many palaeographic anomalies and the lack of provenance and the colour and staining disparity and the "phenomenally good condition". They constantly have to change parchment science to allow for the mistaken date. They have to plug in dates, that simply do not work. The note about the scriptorium blunder, the three crosses note, is one of many anomalies unexamined.

From what I see, the writers on this forum struggling to defend Sinaiticus as ancient have no interest in the actual manuscript. Their defense of Sinaiticus is simply an off-shoot of a genetic fallacy.
 
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Even if (and I don't concede that) Tischendorf was a thief who lied about how he acquired Sinaiticus (which, it turns out, is not an uncommon occurrence with ancient scriptures in the Middle East), he had it and presented it to the Russians. The original owners (the monks) insist it is authentic. Experts familiar with ancient documents insist it is authentic.

The only person denying it is authentic is Simonides, who was repeatedly caught fabricating documents ... and fabricating them poorly because they were quickly detected. Besides that, Simonides seemed to be some sort of sociopath. If he came to my law office I would refuse to handle his case on ethical grounds.

I could go on and on about this, but I think this prolonged debate is a waste of bandwidth and I yearn for a new thread that doesn't mention either the Comma or Simonides.
 
I don't know why you insist the experts be "independent". The experts at the British Museum/Library and the Leipzig institute seem familiar enough with ancient documents. I don't know their names, nor the names of any visiting experts, but their organizations have spoken.

Do you have experts - real experts - who have actually examined the Sinaiticus and who insist on a 19th century origin?

Somebody please come up with a brand new thread on a different topic!!
 
There was no conviction.

? Prove ? there was ? no ? conviction for Constantine Simonides going to prison in Germany.

? Prove ? Simonides ? did not ? go to prison in Germany.

Quote me properly.

Who said I was "quot[ing]" you.

I mentioned a possible quid pro quo involving working at the Russian historical archives in St. Petersburg. Nothing about a back alley.

Ah! "Possible" = you're in the realm of uncertainty again.

There's ? no ? solid evidence (I've seen from you so far) that Simonides was employed by the Russian government, or that he was an employee in the Russian governmental archives department.

Can you explain why you've misunderstood Mr Owen's words? ?

Here are the names of two German books by Tischendorf never translated, I think one has a Simonides section.

==========

Die Anfechtungen der Sinai-Bibel (1863)

Waffen der Finsterniss wider die Sinaibibel (1863)

==========

These two books help give you a sense of how wacky and unbalanced was Tischendorf, starting with the titles.

Neither of which prove Simonides did not go to prison. ?

The Simonides response and defense of authenticity (1856)

Ueber die Echtheit des Uranius
Constantine Simonides
https://books.google.com/books?id=ALHKaDsZzt0C

More info:

Die getäuschte Wissenschaft: Ein Genie betrügt Europa – Konstantinos Simonides (2017)
Simonides in England: A Forger's Progress
Pasquale Massimo Pinto
https://books.google.com/books?id=go7fDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA116

I see nothing that proves he did not in fact go to prison... Nothing. ?
 
? Prove ? there was ? no ? conviction for Constantine Simonides going to prison in Germany.
? Prove ? Simonides ? did not ? go to prison in Germany.

Just read the full accounts. If you say there was a conviction, it should be trivially easy to say the charges, the sentence, dates served etc.

To help you out, the date of the arrest was Feb 1, 1856 in Berlin.

You would have done better to put some uncertainty in your posts, since you do not know the facts.
 
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There's ? no ? solid evidence (I've seen from you so far) that Simonides was employed by the Russian government, or that he was an employee in the Russian governmental archives department.

Point accepted.

My writing was a reasonable and likely conclusion, based on what was written by Tregelles, but there are other possibilities.
 
Leipzig cancelled superb tests planned by the independent group BAM from Berlin in 2015.
I keep hearing this but without any context. What is BAM? What "superb tests" were planned? Why had Leipzig scheduled these tests in the first place, especially if it had something to hide? What reason was given for cancelling the tests?

I surmise that the tests were cancelled because the ongoing tug-of-war between the Monastery and the European libraries had caused an agreement on all parties not to do any destructive testing on the Sinaiticus, but I'll await your explanation.
 
I keep hearing this but without any context. What is BAM? What "superb tests" were planned? Why had Leipzig scheduled these tests in the first place, especially if it had something to hide? What reason was given for cancelling the tests?

I surmise that the tests were cancelled because the ongoing tug-of-war between the Monastery and the European libraries had caused an agreement on all parties not to do any destructive testing on the Sinaiticus, but I'll await your explanation.

Earlier

BAM from Berlin, under a lady named Dr. Ira Rabin, worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Most of their testing is totally non-destructive.

In 2015, they were invited to test Leipzig Sinaiticus.
The Leipzig library changed their mind the day they arrived.

Dr. Ira Rabin
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ira_Rabin

BAM (Bundesanstalt für Materialforschung und -prüfung, Berlin)
https://www.bam.de/Navigation/EN/Home/home.html

Dr. Rabin was talking about the DSS tests at Hofstra in 2014, that is where she first shared about the planned Leipzig Sinaiticus tests..
Some examples of the papers.

NON-DESTRUCTIVE INVESTIGATION OF THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS

Quantifying degradation of collagen in ancient manuscripts: The case of the Dead Sea Temple Scroll

Characterization of the Dead Sea Scrolls by advanced analytical techniques

New results in Dead Sea Scrolls non-destructive characterisation. Evidence of different parchment manufacture in the fragments from Reed collection

Solid-state and unilateral NMR study of deterioration of a Dead Sea Scroll fragment

Provenance studies on Dead Sea scrolls parchment by means of quantitative micro-XRF

Characterization of the writing media of the Dead Sea Scrolls

On the Origin of the Ink of the Thanksgiving Scroll (1QHodayot a )

3D Micro-XRF for Cultural Heritage Objects: New Analysis Strategies for the Investigation of the Dead Sea Scrolls

In-situ Damage Assessment of Collagen within Ancient Manuscripts Written on Parchment: A Polarized Raman Spectroscopy Approach

Archaeometry of the Dead Sea Scrolls
 
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The savvy scholars often work in the background.

Well, if I was proposing the theories of the SART team, I'd hide my face, too.


And they do not get confused by deeply entrenched scholarship.

What makes this comment comically absurd is this statement of yours:

Here are the names of two German books by Tischendorf never translated,

Wait. You just grabbed a trumpet and said, "NOBODY ON THE SART TEAM CAN READ GERMAN!!!"

Which means they're not savvy scholars in any way.

Scholars in religious studies have to master four languages: Greek, Hebrew (if OT), German, and French. The reason these books haven't been translated is because they don't have to be - and it's amusing to watch you BLAME THE BOOK or OTHER PEOPLE for the simple fact you cannot read those books because you can't read German. I mean, the gaslighting never stops with you, does it?

Rather than say, "I can't read German," you blame the book or some invisible someone who you think had some sort of obligation to you to translate it.

What is YOUR obligation, Mr. I Don't Know German?

Tischendorf could read German, which means you don't know as much as he did.

I think one has a Simonides section.

Why couldn't you just not even say this?
Why the need to bring up something you can't read and don't know what's in it?

Is this normal behavior anywhere else?

Die Anfechtungen der Sinai-Bibel (1863)

I'm curious as to what you think this one said.
I'm guessing you used Google Translate and can't really do that, either.

There's nothing wrong with that title at all.
You just don't know German.

Waffen der Finsterniss wider die Sinaibibel (1863)

But this came to nothing. The Tischendorf apologetic (attack) books Anfechtungen and Waffen der Finsterniss wider die Sinaibibel are truly an embarrassment, and are never properly considered in the historical accounts.[

Since by your own admission YOU CANNOT READ THESE (why else would you whine about it not being translated), YOU HAVE NO IDEA whether these books are embarrassments, do you?

Didn't stop you from saying that.

Again - this is your level of research writ large. It's called confirmation bias.

These two books help give you a sense of how wacky and unbalanced was Tischendorf, starting with the titles.

Person who can't read and mistakenly thinks his Google translate was accurate bases opinion on wrong methodology and animus against Tischendorf.


Written by a top textual scholar, with request to remain unnamed.

Yes, we can all play the Joe McCarthy game. "I have in my hands here the names of 257 Commies in the government - I just can't show them to you!"

It means nothing.

And you can see the irrationality in many of the arguments here.

I sure can. I can see that you will call the slightest variation from Tischendorf a "lie" but Simonides gets a free pass and defense from you. I can see that you think YOU ALONE can date Sinaiticus having never seen it but demand others HAVE TO PROVE IT!! I can see that you demand testing and even if it comes up against you, you'll just say "Simonides himself said he was an expert with inks and the parchment was old."

The only irrational arguments being presented here are by you.
However, I am rather confident that it will fall nonetheless. :)

Easy to do when you've already decided you're not going to accept the results anyway.

I'm just here for the comments.
The only thing I've learned is the depths of human depravity and the willingness to believe a lying forger all because you don't like certain English Bibles.
 
Your answer leaves out why Leipzig originally scheduled the BAM examination, especially since you suggest that Leipzig had something to hide.
Also, the reason given by Leipzig for cancelling the examination.

You have conjured up a conspiracy theory in which Leipzig, the British Library, the Russian archives, and the monks are all conspiring to conceal the 19th century origin of Sinaiticus. This is especially incredible because the British parted with £100,000 simply to become part of this conspiracy. Were black helicopters involved?
 
Tischendorf mentions convictions in Greece.

Tischendorf mentions imprisonment in Germany.

Calligra mentions attempted poisoning of parents in Greece.

MacGrane mentions incitement of mob violence and death threats in Greece.

There's a lot that has "apparently" happened in Greece, that we're simply not hearing about from Avery's side.

Hmmmm.
 
Tischendorf mentions convictions in Greece.

Tischendorf mentions imprisonment in Germany.

Calligra mentions attempted poisoning of parents in Greece.

MacGrane mentions incitement of mob violence and death threats in Greece.

There's a lot that has "apparently" happened in Greece, that we're simply not hearing about from Avery's side.

Hmmmm.
That's not "confirmational bias", it's "confirmational prejudice"! ?

--Rich
 
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