The False Doctrine of "Hell"

[Stephen]

It is difficult prove something doesn't exist when somebody imagines it is true. Such an proof is a form of proving a negative, however there are means of proving a negative. To do so, you typically show something isn't there when it should be present, I.e. absence of evidence is evidence of absence. For example, if you don't see your pet elephant in your living room (absence of evidence), you can safely conclude the elephant isn't in your living room (evidence of absence).

The doctrine of "hell" is something people imagine is taught in the bible. It isn't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, notice that "hell" is absent in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes a material universe. Everything in Genesis 1 is tangible. There are no netherworld regions in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes the sun, moon, earth, etc... as objects, putting Hebrews and Christians thousands of years ahead of everybody else. Genesis 1 describes the creation. Yet there is no "hell" or underworld described or mentioned.

Second, notice that "hell" is absent where it should be present in Genesis 3. This is the passage where Adam is cursed The curse on Adam and Eve is painful childbirth, conflict, work, and "from dust you are and to dust you will return". The curse on Adam and Eve is not eternal life in fiery torment, or whatever. The lie of the serpent is that if you sin you will live forever, the truth is that you will die. The doctrine of hell teaches that you will live forever, it is the same lie the serpent told.

Third, notice that the condemnation is consistent through the bible. In Romans 5, Paul notes that by one man sin entered the world and death by sin. Death in the New Testament links back to death in Genesis 3. It does not link back to eternal life in fiery torment. In teaching of the salvation of man, the bible teaches that man is saved from death, not from eternal conscious torment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding passages used to support such a monumental doctrine as a redefinition of death are thin. The primary passage is "the rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31 (Link). But look closely at the passage, this is a parable by Jesus, not a description of actual events. For example:

• Heaven isn't mentioned in the passage. It speaks of "the bosom of Abraham". This place isn't defined in scripture,
• Likewise, "hades" or "hell" place mentioned in the passage isn't described in scripture either.
• These people are taken bodily. The rich man looks with his eyes, he wants a drop of water from a finger placed upon his tongue. These body parts rot away in the grave, they aren't carried away by angels.
• There is a gulf between Abraham and the rich man, yet the rich man wants Lazarus to come visit him.
• The rich man speaks and has a conversation with Abraham. Not with angels, or whatever else. He speaks to Abraham.
• Abraham is dead and has not received his reward (Heb. 11:8, 13, 39, 40). Abraham isn't in Abraham's bosom.

It can be argued that Jesus did not call it a parable, however only 11 of his 26+ parables in Luke are actually called parables. What the story in Luke 16 is actually about is in verses 14-15 Jesus attacks the Pharisees and materialism, and this materialism is why they killed him. He tells a parable specifically directed to the Pharisees, and for them to understand. Examine the characters and the story:

• a Rich Man (High Priest Caiphas)
• his Father (Annas) (High priest when Jesus was a child)
• the sons of the Father (Eleazar, Jonathan, Theophilus, Matthias, Ananus) (also high priests)
• who all were wealthy
• were well studied in Moses and the Prophets.
• And his promise to these men was that though one would rise from the dead, they would not repent.

It actually happened. Lazarus rose from the dead and they all the more wanted to kill him. Jesus rose from the dead and they did not repent.

This parable was given to the Pharisees, not to somebody who has never the God of Israel and his son. This parable isn't for the unknowing, this parable is for those well steeped in the bible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the doctrine of "hell" is Pagan claptrap and should be discarded as a doctrine. The wages of sin is death (not eternal conscious torment), and the gift of God is eternal life.

 

[Kris Jordan]

It is difficult prove something doesn't exist when somebody imagines it is true. Such an proof is a form of proving a negative, however there are means of proving a negative. To do so, you typically show something isn't there when it should be present, I.e. absence of evidence is evidence of absence. For example, if you don't see your pet elephant in your living room (absence of evidence), you can safely conclude the elephant isn't in your living room (evidence of absence).

The doctrine of "hell" is something people imagine is taught in the bible. It isn't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, notice that "hell" is absent in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes a material universe. Everything in Genesis 1 is tangible. There are no netherworld regions in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes the sun, moon, earth, etc... as objects, putting Hebrews and Christians thousands of years ahead of everybody else. Genesis 1 describes the creation. Yet there is no "hell" or underworld described or mentioned.

Second, notice that "hell" is absent where it should be present in Genesis 3. This is the passage where Adam is cursed The curse on Adam and Eve is painful childbirth, conflict, work, and "from dust you are and to dust you will return". The curse on Adam and Eve is not eternal life in fiery torment, or whatever. The lie of the serpent is that if you sin you will live forever, the truth is that you will die. The doctrine of hell teaches that you will live forever, it is the same lie the serpent told.

Third, notice that the condemnation is consistent through the bible. In Romans 5, Paul notes that by one man sin entered the world and death by sin. Death in the New Testament links back to death in Genesis 3. It does not link back to eternal life in fiery torment. In teaching of the salvation of man, the bible teaches that man is saved from death, not from eternal conscious torment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding passages used to support such a monumental doctrine as a redefinition of death are thin. The primary passage is "the rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31 (Link). But look closely at the passage, this is a parable by Jesus, not a description of actual events. For example:

• Heaven isn't mentioned in the passage. It speaks of "the bosom of Abraham". This place isn't defined in scripture,
• Likewise, "hades" or "hell" place mentioned in the passage isn't described in scripture either.
• These people are taken bodily. The rich man looks with his eyes, he wants a drop of water from a finger placed upon his tongue. These body parts rot away in the grave, they aren't carried away by angels.
• There is a gulf between Abraham and the rich man, yet the rich man wants Lazarus to come visit him.
• The rich man speaks and has a conversation with Abraham. Not with angels, or whatever else. He speaks to Abraham.
• Abraham is dead and has not received his reward (Heb. 11:8, 13, 39, 40). Abraham isn't in Abraham's bosom.

It can be argued that Jesus did not call it a parable, however only 11 of his 26+ parables in Luke are actually called parables. What the story in Luke 16 is actually about is in verses 14-15 Jesus attacks the Pharisees and materialism, and this materialism is why they killed him. He tells a parable specifically directed to the Pharisees, and for them to understand. Examine the characters and the story:

• a Rich Man (High Priest Caiphas)
• his Father (Annas) (High priest when Jesus was a child)
• the sons of the Father (Eleazar, Jonathan, Theophilus, Matthias, Ananus) (also high priests)
• who all were wealthy
• were well studied in Moses and the Prophets.
• And his promise to these men was that though one would rise from the dead, they would not repent.

It actually happened. Lazarus rose from the dead and they all the more wanted to kill him. Jesus rose from the dead and they did not repent.

This parable was given to the Pharisees, not to somebody who has never the God of Israel and his son. This parable isn't for the unknowing, this parable is for those well steeped in the bible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the doctrine of "hell" is Pagan claptrap and should be discarded as a doctrine. The wages of sin is death (not eternal conscious torment), and the gift of God is eternal life.

Hi Stephen,

What do you make of these verses?

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NASB)

But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 (NASB)

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:10-15 (NASB)

Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NASB)

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It is difficult prove something doesn't exist when somebody imagines it is true. Such an proof is a form of proving a negative, however there are means of proving a negative. To do so, you typically show something isn't there when it should be present, I.e. absence of evidence is evidence of absence. For example, if you don't see your pet elephant in your living room (absence of evidence), you can safely conclude the elephant isn't in your living room (evidence of absence).

The doctrine of "hell" is something people imagine is taught in the bible. It isn't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, notice that "hell" is absent in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes a material universe. Everything in Genesis 1 is tangible. There are no netherworld regions in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes the sun, moon, earth, etc... as objects, putting Hebrews and Christians thousands of years ahead of everybody else. Genesis 1 describes the creation. Yet there is no "hell" or underworld described or mentioned.

Second, notice that "hell" is absent where it should be present in Genesis 3. This is the passage where Adam is cursed The curse on Adam and Eve is painful childbirth, conflict, work, and "from dust you are and to dust you will return". The curse on Adam and Eve is not eternal life in fiery torment, or whatever. The lie of the serpent is that if you sin you will live forever, the truth is that you will die. The doctrine of hell teaches that you will live forever, it is the same lie the serpent told.

Third, notice that the condemnation is consistent through the bible. In Romans 5, Paul notes that by one man sin entered the world and death by sin. Death in the New Testament links back to death in Genesis 3. It does not link back to eternal life in fiery torment. In teaching of the salvation of man, the bible teaches that man is saved from death, not from eternal conscious torment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding passages used to support such a monumental doctrine as a redefinition of death are thin. The primary passage is "the rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31 (Link). But look closely at the passage, this is a parable by Jesus, not a description of actual events. For example:

• Heaven isn't mentioned in the passage. It speaks of "the bosom of Abraham". This place isn't defined in scripture,
• Likewise, "hades" or "hell" place mentioned in the passage isn't described in scripture either.
• These people are taken bodily. The rich man looks with his eyes, he wants a drop of water from a finger placed upon his tongue. These body parts rot away in the grave, they aren't carried away by angels.
• There is a gulf between Abraham and the rich man, yet the rich man wants Lazarus to come visit him.
• The rich man speaks and has a conversation with Abraham. Not with angels, or whatever else. He speaks to Abraham.
• Abraham is dead and has not received his reward (Heb. 11:8, 13, 39, 40). Abraham isn't in Abraham's bosom.

It can be argued that Jesus did not call it a parable, however only 11 of his 26+ parables in Luke are actually called parables. What the story in Luke 16 is actually about is in verses 14-15 Jesus attacks the Pharisees and materialism, and this materialism is why they killed him. He tells a parable specifically directed to the Pharisees, and for them to understand. Examine the characters and the story:

• a Rich Man (High Priest Caiphas)
• his Father (Annas) (High priest when Jesus was a child)
• the sons of the Father (Eleazar, Jonathan, Theophilus, Matthias, Ananus) (also high priests)
• who all were wealthy
• were well studied in Moses and the Prophets.
• And his promise to these men was that though one would rise from the dead, they would not repent.

It actually happened. Lazarus rose from the dead and they all the more wanted to kill him. Jesus rose from the dead and they did not repent.

This parable was given to the Pharisees, not to somebody who has never the God of Israel and his son. This parable isn't for the unknowing, this parable is for those well steeped in the bible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the doctrine of "hell" is Pagan claptrap and should be discarded as a doctrine. The wages of sin is death (not eternal conscious torment), and the gift of God is eternal life.

BOY HOWDY!!! that was a lot of work for NOTHING. If at the end, DEATH, AND HELL are thrown into the lake of Fire all your work in "disproving hell" pretty much get discarded for the denominational foolishness it is.

 

[Stephen]

Hi Stephen,

What do you make of these verses?

Let's read them together.

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NASB)

This event occurs after the millennial reign (Rev 20:1-10) and includes those not resurrected before the millennial reign (v5). The dead, great and small stand for judgment. (This is unlike any teaching on hell that I have ever read, which universally teach immediate judgment).

These persons are bodily persons, just like they are in verses 1-6. The dead come from three places:

• The sea gives up here dead,
• Death gives up her dead,
• Hades gives up her dead.
  • If "hades" is hell, people are in "hell" before being judged which is in direct contradiction to any teaching on hell that I have ever read

The dead from these places are judged out of various books. They are judged according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire. And anyone not found written in the book of life is also thrown into the lake of fire. Christ eliminates all places where the dead are at as the sea is no more in the new creation (Rev 21:1), death and hades are eliminated at the judgment seat (Rev 20:14).

The meaning of this is

• Prophetically the "sea" is the nations, and this speaks to there just being one nation ruled by Christ which is why it isn't thrown into the lake of fire.
• Death is the last enemy defeated by Christ 1 Cor 15:26, it is destroyed forever by being thrown into the lake of fire. Hades (the grave in my estimation) is no more.

The "lake of fire" is "the second death" (Rev. 20:14; 21:8). Death goes there, hades goes there, and those not written in the book of life go there. As the fate of "death" and "hades" and sinners is the same, defeat and destruction, the lake of fire is symbolic of complete and permanent destruction.

I'm note sure how this relates to "hell".

• If "hades" is "hell", then it is permanently destroyed in the lake of fire.
• If "the lake of fire" then it doesn't appear on the scene until after the millennial reign and is completely unlike any teaching on hell that I have ever read.

But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 (NASB)

The resurrected persons previously described in Rev 20 are cast into the lake of fire. This is a partial re-iteration of the previous chapter's events.

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:10-15 (NASB)

In this passage, people who slander and abuse angels. Your quote ends at verse 13, but if you read verses 14-15 it tells you where the abuse comes from. Jude makes two quotations of the book of Enoch which slanders angels by saying they have sinned.

Blackness and darkness is reserved forever for these people. The parallel passage in 2 Peter 2:17 relates what that destruction is, it is death. Just like the first were killed in the flood, these will be destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3:6-7).

Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NASB)

The punishment is eternal. Death. They are dead forever, never to be raised again. From dust they are, and dust they shall be, eternally. This is Christ speaking of the judgment seat in Rev 20.

 

[ferengi]

conclusion, the doctrine of "hell" is Pagan claptrap and should be discarded as a doctrine. The wages of sin is death (not eternal conscious torment), and the gift of God is eternal life.

Your evidence is? So what happens to the unsaved person at death - what happens to their soul?

 

[Stephen]

Your evidence is?

Read the post.

So what happens to the unsaved person at death - what happens to their soul?

The person dies at death. It is the definition of death. Genesis 3.

For example, Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). Adam, the living soul, died and returned to the dust.


Our hope is the resurrection from the dead, just like Jesus was resurrected from the dead. See Romans 6:1-6.

 

[ferengi]

The person dies at death. It is the definition of death. Genesis 3.

For example, Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). Adam, the living soul, died and returned to the dust.
Our hope is the resurrection from the dead, just like Jesus was resurrected from the dead. See Romans 6:1-6.

So you have no evidence.
SO what happens to the soul of those not saved?

 

[Stephen]

So you have no evidence.

At this point I have to ask what particular thing is on your mind that you are asking for evidence for?

If something isn't in the bible, there won't be any evidence of it in the bible. People will attempt to twist things in the bible into being evidence (as per the OP), but if something isn't in the bible then by definition evidence of its existence will be lacking. This was explained in the first paragraph of the OP.

SO what happens to the soul of those not saved?

The person dies and stays dead. That is the definition of not being saved. If you are saved, you are saved from death.

 

[4Him]

At this point I have to ask what particular thing is on your mind that you are asking for evidence for?

If something isn't in the bible, there won't be any evidence of it in the bible. People will attempt to twist things in the bible into being evidence (as per the OP), but if something isn't in the bible then by definition evidence of its existence will be lacking. This was explained in the first paragraph of the OP.



The person dies and stays dead. That is the definition of not being saved. If you are saved, you are saved from death.

So the unsaved just stay dead? Not much of a punishment compared to the way Jesus describes what happens to those that don’t follow Him.

 

[Tiburon]

So the unsaved just stay dead? Not much of a punishment compared to the way Jesus describes what happens to those that don’t follow Him.

I guess the death penalty isn't much of a punishment then either.

 

[Stephen]

So the unsaved just stay dead? Not much of a punishment compared to the way Jesus describes what happens to those that don’t follow Him.

Do you have a particular scripture reference you wish to discuss?

To quote Jesus regarding those not following him:

And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 10:38-39)​

Jesus says they will die.

 

[4Him]

I guess the death penalty isn't much of a punishment then either.

Not for a Christian.

 

[4Him]

Do you have a particular scripture reference you wish to discuss?

To quote Jesus regarding those not following him:

And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 10:38-39)​

Jesus says they will die.

Eternal fire is not eternal. Instead, God as the source is eternal

Eternal fire in the context of annihilationism is not God as the source of eternal fire. It is the actual place into which the wicked are cast and suffer

carm.org

 

[Stephen]

Eternal fire is not eternal. Instead, God as the source is eternal

Eternal fire in the context of annihilationism is not God as the source of eternal fire. It is the actual place into which the wicked are cast and suffer

carm.org

There aren't any quotations from Jesus regarding those "those that don’t follow him", meaning your website link doesn't actually relate to your vague claim about what Jesus says happens to those that don't follow him. Per your question, the direct answer is that Jesus claims that those that don't follow him will lose their life.

Regarding the website, the only thing described in there that is "eternal" is the very hot fire. Do you believe that that hot fire is the lake of fire, or "hell" which is thrown into the lake of fire?

The act of randomly flinging website and/or bible passages around without a coherent understanding of what doctrine you claim is in the bible isn't proof or even evidence of a doctrine. It is just random flailing about attempting to cobble a doctrine that doesn't exist and forcing it into the bible based on passages that vaguely sound like what you want them to say.

If you believe the doctrine of "hell" to be true, then what goes to this "hell"?

• A human being (as described in Genesis 2, i.e. body, ribs, eyes, etc...)
• Something other than a human being

If a human being (as described in Genesis 2) goes to this "hell", then when does it go there?

• Immediately after death (i.e. no time for the autopsy, angels ran off with the body)
• At the last trump
• Other

What happens to a human being (as described in Genesis 2) when it gets flung into fire?

• Dies (There is a lot of experimental evidence for this case)
• Lives forever in the flames (there isn't any experimental evidence for this case)

If it isn't a human being (as described in Genesis 2), then

• Where is this "other than human being" described in the bible?

When does this other than human being go to "hell"?

• Immediately after death
• Other (if other, say when)

Does this "other than human being" care one iota about fire?

 

[4Him]

There aren't any quotations from Jesus regarding those "those that don’t follow him", meaning your website link doesn't actually relate to your vague claim about what Jesus says happens to those that don't follow him. Per your question, the direct answer is that Jesus claims that those that don't follow him will lose their life.

Regarding the website, the only thing described in there that is "eternal" is the very hot fire. Do you believe that that hot fire is the lake of fire, or "hell" which is thrown into the lake of fire?

The act of randomly flinging website and/or bible passages around without a coherent understanding of what doctrine you claim is in the bible isn't proof or even evidence of a doctrine. It is just random flailing about attempting to cobble a doctrine that doesn't exist and forcing it into the bible based on passages that vaguely sound like what you want them to say.

If you believe the doctrine of "hell" to be true, then what goes to this "hell"?

• A human being (as described in Genesis 2, i.e. body, ribs, eyes, etc...)
• Something other than a human being

If a human being (as described in Genesis 2) goes to this "hell", then when does it go there?

• Immediately after death (i.e. no time for the autopsy, angels ran off with the body)
• At the last trump
• Other

What happens to a human being (as described in Genesis 2) when it gets flung into fire?

• Dies (There is a lot of experimental evidence for this case)
• Lives forever in the flames (there isn't any experimental evidence for this case)

If it isn't a human being (as described in Genesis 2), then

• Where is this "other than human being" described in the bible?

When does this other than human being go to "hell"?

• Immediately after death
• Other (if other, say when)

Does this "other than human being" care one iota about fire?

You addressed nothing in the article. Nothing. You are repeating your cults talking points.

 

[Stephen]

You addressed nothing in the article. Nothing. You are repeating your cults talking points.

I haven't found any talking points that went down the path that I went down. I will have to google to find them.

To quote myself:

Regarding the website, the only thing described in there that is "eternal" is the very hot fire. Do you believe that that hot fire is the lake of fire, or "hell" which is thrown into the lake of fire?​

Since you apparently don't know what you are referencing with your own link ("hell" or "the lake of fire"), I'll go with the title of the link "hell". "Hell" is thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:14, along with death, and those resurrected and rejected. Hell doesn't contain all of the dead, as the sea, and death also contain some of the dead (Rev 20:13) which is in direct contradiction to all doctrines of hell that I have read..


Do you have any answers to the questions asked regarding hell in the supposed talking points?

 

[4Him]

I haven't found any talking points that went down the path that I went down.

You say it doesn’t exist.

I gave you a link showing you have no leg to stand in. You addressed nothing in it.

 

[Stephen]

You say it doesn’t exist.

I gave you a link showing you have no leg to stand in. You addressed nothing in it.

Firstly, the link supposedly answered the question of what Jesus said would happen to people that don't follow him. The link didn't even address that topic. I provided the answer to that question: they die (Matthew 10:38-39). There is no mention of "hell" from the lips of Jesus in response to what happens to people that don't follow him.

Now we are switching topic from what Jesus says to "your cult's talking points". Despite the title, the "talking points" are about various topics unrelated to "hell". The scripture citations are sparse as off topic with regards to the thesis. For example, in the real meat of the thesis we have the following citations:

• Matthew 18:8/Mark 9:43 speaking of the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem, not even about "hell". This passage is speaking of a person being bodily thrown into a fire while still living or cutting off literal body parts to avoid it happening.
• Matthew 3:12/Luke 3:17 speaking to the Pharisees and what was going to happen to them, burned with hot fire. No mention of "hell".
• 2 Thess 1:9 speaking of eternal destruction. No mention of "hell".
• Jude 7 speaking of eternal fire of Sodom and Gomorrah, a fire that has apparently gone out. No mention of "hell"

It is interesting to note that none of the citations related to the thesis on the page are from the Old Testament, and none of the passages cited are an explanation of the doctrine of "hell". They are simply singular sentences cherry picked from all over the last 15 percent of the bible strung together with no coordinated singular explanation from the scriptures, and further, they don't speak of "hell" but rather they speak of fire.

The whole page wants to prove that "hell" exists, but cites a bunch of passages that talks about an "eternal fire" that isn't linked to "hell".

Is there a specific one of your "talking points" that you wish to discuss, rather than the whole slab?



As I have addressed your "talking points". Could you address my questions about who and what goes where in this doctrine of "hell" that is supposedly about who and what goes where?

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

Read the post.



The person dies at death. It is the definition of death. Genesis 3.

For example, Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). Adam, the living soul, died and returned to the dust.


Our hope is the resurrection from the dead, just like Jesus was resurrected from the dead. See Romans 6:1-6.

You got that so wrong

Adam was created from dust and returned to dust. After he was created God breathed a living soul into him. Your sources can't tell us where the soul which is not from dust goes.

 

[4Him]

Firstly, the link supposedly answered the question of what Jesus said would happen to people that don't follow him. The link didn't even address that topic. I provided the answer to that question: they die (Matthew 10:38-39). There is no mention of "hell" from the lips of Jesus in response to what happens to people that don't follow him.

Rich man and lazarus was an example of what happens to unbelievers....I know, those in cults who deny who Jesus is, deny this reality, as you are doing.

Matt 3, 8
Matt 11, 25
Mark 9
Luke 13
2 thess 1
rev 14, 20

Now we are switching topic from what Jesus says to "your cult's talking points".

That's what you are posting, the talking points of a cult who denies who Jesus is.