The False Doctrine of "Hell"

[Stephen]

[Revelation 20:14] describes the end of the Judgement Age when all death and the concept of burial are thrown into the Lake of Fire to never afflict mankind again.

Amen.

1 Corinthians 15​

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.​

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

It just seemed too strong a thing to say, Bob. It kind of took me aback.

Strongly worded? Yes, deliberately so. CARM is supposed to be about reasoned debate re the most profound of subjects.
Heretical doctrines that promote atheism amongst non-believers should be countered forcefully.
One thing I will not do is suggest or imply that someone is doomed to an eternity of torment because they disagree with me. I get that crap all the time from Christian brethren who should be busy attending to the beams in their eyes.

 

[Gary Mac]

I get frustrated because I take debate seriously and I wonder why anyone wouldn't but so many don't so here we are.
Nobody gets everything right but this tradition, that GOD is a merciless tormentor of those who disagree with Him, is particularly odious, imho.

Yes God always tries to save man always has. He always warns man what will happen if they do certain things. It is that man ignores Him to static their own fate. We have His warnings today and look at the state of the world who reject those warnings. He is taken out of schools teachings, governemnt teachings, cant pray in public events. It will be destrioied not by the hand of God for He has warned but by their very own hands for neglection so great a salvation from it.

 

[Gary Mac]

Young's Literal Translation: [Revelation 20:14] and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death;

We all know what death means but some do not really understand the term Hades. If you go to any Greek/English dictionary you will see that Hades translates to the "Grave, Sepulcher, Tomb".

Many superstitious early Catholics referred to this (Hades) as the "Underworld". Well....it was under the ground..... which some call the world, but it wasn't until the 14th century that it was identified with "Fire".

Dante Alighieri was an Italian poet and he wrote "The Divine Comedy" which was an imaginary vision of the afterlife. In it he included many non scriptural events (Fire) to take place which because of the immense popularity of his work became part of the accepted idea of the imaginary "Hell". It was quickly picked as fact by the "Dark Age" populace.

Remember.....during these times the only literacy to be found was among the Royalty and the Clergy. Folks just believed what they were told.

Entertain yourself. Look for the "Divine Comedy" on your computer to learn where many of these fairy tales came from.

[Revelation 20:14] describes the end of the Judgement Age when all death and the concept of burial are thrown into the Lake of Fire to never afflict mankind again.

Not many understand that spiritual death though, all they can relate to in death is a grave for the mortal man.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

edit per mod

PSST!! There's no such thing as Purgatory. It's satan's BEST JOKE on Catholics - when they realize it's really HELL, and they're never getting out.

 

[4Him]

According as I said to you: My sheep My voice do hear, and I know them and they follow me,
and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of My hand;

Those who have ears to hear, will hear. I am done with you; you may have the last word.

Eternal. His sheep are given ETERNAL life, and they shall NEVER PERISH.

 

[4Him]

I get frustrated because I take debate seriously and I wonder why anyone wouldn't but so many don't so here we are.
Nobody gets everything right but this tradition, that GOD is a merciless tormentor of those who disagree with Him, is particularly odious, imho.

If you take it so seriously, why not refute the article posted line for line instead of the canned responses you've given throughout this entire thread.

 

[4Him]

Sorry.........you cannot establish and prove up your theology by changing the meaning of words

Except nothing was changed, so there's that.

Your article is in error.

Yet you can't prove that.

 

[4Him]

Many non-Christians will renounce Christianity after asking....."How can a all-powerful and loving God allow folks to be burned alive for all time?" It's an honest question which deserves an honest answer.

Non Christians cannot renounce what they already renounce.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Many non-Christians are not Christian because the choice presented by mainstream churchianity and its cheerleaders is so odious and illogical.
There is no way to prove a falsehood to be true; there are just parrots here, squawking the party line.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

How is eternal torment not eternal life ?

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Sorry.........you cannot establish and prove up your theology by changing the meaning of words you don't like. Your article is in error. AION and its adjective AIONION do not mean eternal. They pertain to periods of time with a beginning and an ending. It's where the English word, Eon comes from. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Common sense tells you that one, specific word may not have two diametrically opposed meanings. It's just silly that you believe this! Silly!

As long as being right is more important than being correct, just sticking one's fingers in their ears and denying truth is how debate is executed here. Of course, one has to abandon common sense and logic in order to win.

 

[Hawkeye]

Except nothing was changed, so there's that.


Yet you can't prove that.

[John 10:27-28] according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me, and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish — to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

If you were to sit down and create a new literal translation of scripture you would come across a Greek word that had one undenialble meaning. If you translated it into your new work as it was originally meant you would soon learn that it would begin to do away with organized Church teaching.

It would be faithful to the original manuscripts from which you were working.....but totally foreign to accepted Christian theology. What to do?????????????

[Matthew 24:5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It's the Many....that will deceive......not just a few here and there.

 

[4Him]

[John 10:27-28] according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me, and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish — to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

If you were to sit down and create a new literal translation of scripture you would come across a Greek word that had one undenialble meaning. If you translated it into your new work as it was originally meant you would soon learn that it would begin to do away with organized Church teaching.

It would be faithful to the original manuscripts from which you were working.....but totally foreign to accepted Christian theology. What to do?????????????

[Matthew 24:5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It's the Many....that will deceive......not just a few here and there.

I gave you an entire article explaining that sometimes it means for an age, and sometimes it means ETERNAL....FOREVER, NEVERENDING.
You are unable to address it.

Yes I see many on here deceiving the people.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

[John 10:27-28] according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me, and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish — to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

If you were to sit down and create a new literal translation of scripture you would come across a Greek word that had one undenialble meaning. If you translated it into your new work as it was originally meant you would soon learn that it would begin to do away with organized Church teaching.

It would be faithful to the original manuscripts from which you were working.....but totally foreign to accepted Christian theology. What to do?????????????

[Matthew 24:5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It's the Many....that will deceive......not just a few here and there.

So- aion means eternity except when it doesn't, doncha know?

Interestingly, as you mentioned previously, in the classics (Philo, Herodotus, Diogenes, Plutarch)....none of these classical Greek writers ever chose the word AION or its adjective AIONION to describe something permanent. I guess they neglected to confer with the geniuses here.

 

[Hawkeye]

So- aion means eternity except when it doesn't, doncha know?

Interestingly, as you mentioned previously, in the classics (Philo, Herodotus, Diogenes, Plutarch)....none of these classical Greek writers ever chose the word AION or its adjective AIONION to describe something permanent.

It's very telling that these folks rely on an article which is designed to fully embrace the idea that a word means something exactly opposite of what it historically means.

If your going to invent doctrine to scare some illiterate folks into a false belief.....I guess that's the only way you can do it.

Invent new meanings for established words.

Have you read "The Divine Comedy" yet?

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Hawkeye:

I've read so much about the Divine Comedy that it feels as if I read it but no, not the whole book anyway. I've read a million references; it's a huge part of western culture, after all. It established modern Christian doctrine and is the text most denominations show allegiance to over the Scriptures.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

It's very telling that these folks rely on an article which is designed to fully embrace the idea that a word means something exactly opposite of what it historically means.

If your going to invent doctrine to scare some illiterate folks into a false belief.....I guess that's the only way you can do it.

Invent new meanings for established words.

Have you read "The Divine Comedy" yet?

You've inspired me to read it. I think I have 3 copies.
I've tried to read it but never got too far into it. It was too much like reading a catechism.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Christ started christianity... not the greeks.

the demonic realm knew Christ was coming here and prepared by cementing greek philosophy as classical education into society....300 y before christ..... by that cultural skew mixing their ideas to christianity in medieval times.

We're not debating who started Christianity here; It's more about what has become of Christianity. Who started churchianity? I don't know but the poet Dante was in on the design work, imo.

 

[4Him]

It's very telling that these folks rely on an article which is designed to fully embrace the idea that a word means something exactly opposite of what it historically means.

If your going to invent doctrine to scare some illiterate folks into a false belief.....I guess that's the only way you can do it.

Invent new meanings for established words.

Have you read "The Divine Comedy" yet?

So the theologians and biblical scholars that disagree with you are illiterate?