The False Doctrine of "Hell"

[Stephen]

Actually it is.

The first two verses of the Bible describe the creation of what the KJV calls Hell.

That's a pretty "creative" reading of Genesis 1:1-2

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <--- No Hell here. Only heaven and earth.
2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. < --- Nothing was created in verse 2.

Hell is there as well. It is in the form of the Lake of Fire.

The words "lake" and "fire" are absent from Genesis 3.

Typical.

Whenever someone is caught in a lie, they always state "it never happened".

In other words, the Rich Man and Lazarus 'never happened', otherwise it would 'contradict the False Narrative' that Hell is not real.

Or, the other common occurrence with Christ's teachings, it never happened, because it was a parable.

 

[Hawkeye]

psuche is the Self - the carnal mind.

and not related to a npsh soul.

thank you!

Nephesh is the Body which is sometimes called "Soul" in the Old Testament. But it is not immortal.....it dies [Ezekiel 18:20].

[Numbers 19:11] He that toucheth the dead body (Nephesh) of any man shall be unclean seven days.

....and eleven verses later..........

[Numbers 19:22] And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul (Nephesh) that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.

Take your pick.........is it Nephesh......or Nephesh?

Have you ever read a newspaper story about a plane crash (or some other tragedy) where it says.....all souls were killed? It's quite common to refer to souls as mortal.

You do not find the words "Immortal Soul" together like this anywhere in scripture.....including the New Testament!

 

[Hawkeye]

the soul each have is but the wee core after we lost our eden covering and descended here to the world of death... mystery babylon’s earth.

eden doesnt die and will be restored and the eden sun again will rise soon. but true this world does die, and is not immortal.

If you're not going to supply any scripture reference....it's kind of hard to follow what you're saying. According to scripture I referenced.....the soul is the body....and vice versa.

 

[Base12]

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <--- No Hell here. Only heaven and earth.

I must give you credit here. You used the singular 'Heaven' as opposed to 'Heavens'. God created only one of the Three Heavens at this point.

To be specific, the Heaven God created here was his dwelling place. Our Universe had yet to be created.

Opposite of God's dwelling place is the Abyss, hence...

1. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Because our Universe had not existed yet, Earth, in the most literal sense, had no form and was void.

'The Deep' that God hovered over was Hell, the Underworld, the Abyss, the Bottomless Pit, etc. It was not the ocean as some believe.

Thus, the interpretation is...

"In the beginning God created Heaven and Hell".

The words "lake" and "fire" are absent from Genesis 3.

Correct, however One must use the entire context of the Bible to understand what was happening to Adam and Eve.

The Lake of Fire comes from the Valley of the Son of Hinnom... or Gehenna. Those that are thrown into the fire, pass through it as is described numerous times...

Jeremiah 32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

It is this 'passing through the fire' ritual that Adam and Eve both went through. It is found here...

Genesis 3:24
"So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

The Cherubim and Flaming Sword is what is called Bible Typology. It is another Old Testament prophecy of a New Testament fulfillment.

The Flaming Sword and Cherubim are simply another description of the Lake of Fire.

Therefore, Adam and Eve 'passed through the fire'.

Or, the other common occurrence with Christ's teachings, it never happened, because it was a parable.

Again, you define a 'Parable' as something that never happened. Next, you use that word as an excuse not to believe your Bible.

Call it whatever you want. The bottom line is I believe wholeheartedly that the Rich Man and Lazarus account was not only True, but one of the most important accounts describing the fate of the Unsaved.

 

[Stephen]

Because our Universe had not existed yet, Earth, in the most literal sense, had no form and was void.

'The Deep' that God hovered over was Hell, the Underworld, the Abyss, the Bottomless Pit, etc. It was not the ocean as some believe.

Thus, the interpretation is...

"In the beginning God created Heaven and Hell".

The problem with this of course is that water rather than fire comes from the deep (Genesis 7-8), blessings to Joseph come from there (Gen 49:25), it is describes by waters in the song of Moses (Exodus 15:5,8), etc. . . . The word translated "deep" is not mysterious in scripture.

Correct, however One must use the entire context of the Bible to understand what was happening to Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve set the context for the rest of the bible, not the other way around.

The Lake of Fire comes from the Valley of the Son of Hinnom... or Gehenna. Those that are thrown into the fire, pass through it as is described numerous times...

Jeremiah 32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

This is something that human living kings did to their children. Jeremiah is speaking directly of 2 Chron 33:6 where King Ahaz sent Hezekiah's brothers and sisters (and possibly King Hezekiah himself) through the fire. This is in a literal place that you can go to that has GPS coordinates. Did you even read the verse?

It is this 'passing through the fire' ritual that Adam and Eve both went through. It is found here...

Genesis 3:24
"So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

The Cherubim and Flaming Sword is what is called Bible Typology. It is another Old Testament prophecy of a New Testament fulfillment.

The Flaming Sword and Cherubim are simply another description of the Lake of Fire.

Therefore, Adam and Eve 'passed through the fire'.

Adam and Eve did not pass though those swords. They were thrust out and then swords were implemented. Did you even read the verse?

Again, you define a 'Parable' as something that never happened. Next, you use that word as an excuse not to believe your Bible.

Call it whatever you want. The bottom line is I believe wholeheartedly that the Rich Man and Lazarus account was not only True, but one of the most important accounts describing the fate of the Unsaved.

Though you have shied away from discussing any specifics regarding the parable.

 

[Base12]

The problem with this of course is that water rather than fire comes from the deep (Genesis 7-8), blessings to Joseph come from there (Gen 49:25), it is describes by waters in the song of Moses (Exodus 15:5,8), etc. . . . The word translated "deep" is not mysterious in scripture.

'The Deep' has various meanings depending on the context...

Romans 10:7
"Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"

In the above context, The Deep is referring to the Abyss. It is also the place of the dead.

Physical water and/or fire as we know it is irrelevant. The 'Waters' in Genesis is in reference to a 'Dimensional Plane' that separates our world from the Underworld. Think of the Sea of Glass...

Revelation 15:2
"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

It is a 'sea' (like waters in Genesis), yet is is 'glass', like a mirror. It is also mingled with fire. In other words, the Sea of Glass is the Dimensional Barrier that separates our world from the 'Above World' or Heaven.

Once again, the difference between what you believe and what I believe comes down to how literal One takes the verses.

To me, the phrase "Without form" means just that. Earth had no form...

• Earth was not a Sphere
• Earth was not a Cube
• Earth was not a Pyramid
• Earth was not a Donut

Earth was 2D as opposed to 3D, similar to a 'Plane' in graphic design software.

The phrase "void" means just that. Earth was void, meaning a complete vacuum.

What you do is toss out the phrase 'without form and void' and tell folks it *had* a form and it *wasn't* void.

In other words... "It was a Globe with oceans on it, etc." I personally do not believe in Bible contradictions.

This is something that human living kings did to their children. Jeremiah is speaking directly of 2 Chron 33:6 where King Ahaz sent Hezekiah's brothers and sisters (and possibly King Hezekiah himself) through the fire. This is in a literal place that you can go to that has GPS coordinates.

As I have already stated, it is a well known fact that the Lake of Fire in the Book of Revelation is a picture of the Valley of the Son of Hinnom.

I never said Gehenna was not literal. Not sure why you threw that in.

Adam and Eve did not pass though those swords. They were thrust out and then swords were implemented.

You are assuming that the timing of the events follows the sentence structure. That is beside the point however.

The Man was 'driven out'. In other words, they were forced against their will to leave. There was 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' so to speak.

Luke 13:28
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

Look up how many verses speak of being 'thrust out'. This is what happened to Adam and Eve.

Though you have shied away from discussing any specifics regarding the parable.

It is your thread. If you do not believe the so called 'parable', what point is there to continue?

 

[Stephen]

'The Deep' has various meanings depending on the context...

Romans 10:7
"Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"

In the above context, The Deep is referring to the Abyss. It is also the place of the dead.

This is a quotation of Deut 30:13. And God saying that obedience is not too hard for you.

Physical water and/or fire as we know it is irrelevant. The 'Waters' in Genesis is in reference to a 'Dimensional Plane' that separates our world from the Underworld. Think of the Sea of Glass...

Revelation 15:2
"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

It is a 'sea' (like waters in Genesis), yet is is 'glass', like a mirror. It is also mingled with fire. In other words, the Sea of Glass is the Dimensional Barrier that separates our world from the 'Above World' or Heaven.

This is an allegory, you can tell because it uses the words "as it were a". John is also seeing this in heaven (see verse 1). This isn't "hell".

Once again, the difference between what you believe and what I believe comes down to how literal One takes the verses.

To me, the phrase "Without form" means just that. Earth had no form...

• Earth was not a Sphere
• Earth was not a Cube
• Earth was not a Pyramid
• Earth was not a Donut

Earth was 2D as opposed to 3D, similar to a 'Plane' in graphic design software.

The phrase "void" means just that. Earth was void, meaning a complete vacuum.

What you do is toss out the phrase 'without form and void' and tell folks it *had* a form and it *wasn't* void.

In other words... "It was a Globe with oceans on it, etc." I personally do not believe in Bible contradictions.

What form did I say the earth had? There was no land in verse 1, as it was a day 3 creation. As such, there would not be "oceans", there would be only "ocean". Do you actually know your way around Genesis 1?

As I have already stated, it is a well known fact that the Lake of Fire in the Book of Revelation is a picture of the Valley of the Son of Hinnom.

I never said Gehenna was not literal. Not sure why you threw that in.

I am not sure who "well knows it". But I do agree it the lake of fire is not literal, but rather a picture.

You are assuming that the timing of the events follows the sentence structure. That is beside the point however.

The Man was 'driven out'. In other words, they were forced against their will to leave. There was 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' so to speak.

Luke 13:28
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."

Look up how many verses speak of being 'thrust out'. This is what happened to Adam and Eve.

Your bible certainly has alot different words than mine.

Genesis 3:23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The facts are: banishment in unknown direction, placement sword on east side, and no mention of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This has nothing to do with passing through the fire. Adam and Eve were in Eden, and the were thrown out.

It is your thread. If you do not believe the so called 'parable', what point is there to continue?

I believe the parable. I unpacked it for you.

If you believe it isn't a parable, but rather literal, then how is my unpacking incorrect? (15 pages in, and nobody has given that a shot yet)

 

[Gary Mac]

This is a quotation of Deut 30:13. And God saying that obedience is not too hard for you.




This is an allegory, you can tell because it uses the words "as it were a". John is also seeing this in heaven (see verse 1). This isn't "hell".




What form did I say the earth had? There was no land in verse 1, as it was a day 3 creation. As such, there would not be "oceans", there would be only "ocean". Do you actually know your way around Genesis 1?






I am not sure who "well knows it". But I do agree it the lake of fire is not literal, but rather a picture.




Your bible certainly has alot different words than mine.

Genesis 3:23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The facts are: banishment in unknown direction, placement sword on east side, and no mention of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This has nothing to do with passing through the fire. Adam and Eve were in Eden, and the were thrown out.




I believe the parable. I unpacked it for you.

If you believe it isn't a parable, but rather literal, then how is my unpacking incorrect? (15 pages in, and nobody has given that a shot yet)

It isnt about believing a parable -- it is about living it.

 

[Gary Mac]

well then, your actual life right now isn't there at all either. it's an abstraction.

It is an abstraction for you I agree, but all who has recieved from God as Jesus did it is the power of God in us. to walk as He wlaks in His same light.

No point in remembering when you lived at x address since there is no place. No point in remembering when your daughter or son first walked, since there is 'no place' where that happened.

No point in trying to be in a place that you never have been in the Father. I already wbeen through the address and the place of my daughter.

Since you will not accept that actual, cosmological places exist, then why should this one either? Since you do not accept that Eden exist, or that Adam had a body in eden, then why accept you even have one here, or that you have hands and that you type on carm.

Actually the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation but is withn you, you just dont believe Jesus is all.

There is nothing wrong at all that cosmological places exist, of course they do, either here or dimensionally the other world. but of course if you want to be as in that flatlander text, and not be able to see except the chair you are sitting in... then...what can be said. nothing.
There is no reason why Eden cannot exist anymore than Arizona or New Mexico. Yet it does and so do they.

You are in a star ship enterprise looking for a kingdom for eden that you are ignorant of is all.

Rejecting that there is a location where a being can reside is not necessary unless to you everything is a total mental abstraction and a parable and NOTHING exists except the figments of your own natural mind.

rejecting Jesus when he said the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation but is withn you is not necessary for your religious beliefs system I agree with you, he holds no merit for you at all.

BTW His way is not natural at all, a natural mind will tell you that the kingdom of God is not withn you but somewhewre for the sweet by and by. See Jesus in Luke 17:20-21 but then you would have to follow his way and beleive him wouldnt you?

 

[Gary Mac]

the body that dies is this one. psuche is part of it. We are not to touch it, see haggai. Adam did (touch this realm of death) and we fell.

the soul is His. this body and mind are not.

But you are trying to touch it is called Eden.

Our mind is His who with all who has recieved His same mind. Only because you dont have the mind of Christ anopinted of God doesnt mean others dont have His same mind, it only means that you dont is all.

 

[Base12]

If you believe it isn't a parable, but rather literal, then how is my unpacking incorrect? (15 pages in, and nobody has given that a shot yet)

OK. Let's talk parables.

How many folks here actually know that Hell is a parable for the Womb?

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

And there you have it. Century after century of 'Hell Fire' this and 'Lake of Fire' that, and not a single Church teaches the True meaning of what Hell is.

Hell is the place where babies come from. PERIOD.

Because Christians again do not take their Bibles literally, they see Psalms 139:15 as mere 'poetry'.

Don't believe me? Why am I not surprised.

Let us now hear what Jesus has to say about where Children... i.e... you and I and every person on the planet comes from...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Did you catch that? CHILD OF HELL. Is it literal? You bet it is.

"Yeah but, Jesus is talking about the bad guys, not me, I'm special!"

It does not matter. We are all born unto sin. We are all children of Hell, with Satan as our Earthly Father. The bottom line is that we *all* came from Hell, which means you folks better start doing some thinking FAST.

If we came from Hell, how did we get there to begin with?

 

[Stephen]

OK. Let's talk parables.

How many folks here actually know that Hell is a parable for the Womb?

I'm going to guess none, because that is just flat weird.

But you didn't dare to tackle the parable Jesus spoke.

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

And there you have it. Century after century of 'Hell Fire' this and 'Lake of Fire' that, and not a single Church teaches the True meaning of what Hell is.

Hell is the place where babies come from. PERIOD.

Because Christians again do not take their Bibles literally, they see Psalms 139:15 as mere 'poetry'.

How do you equate "lowest parts of the earth" with "hell"?

The passage actually says that God constructed David:

For you created my inmost being;​

you knit me together in my mother’s womb.​

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;​

your works are wonderful,​

I know that full well.​

My frame was not hidden from you​

when I was made in the secret place,​

when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.​

Your eyes saw my unformed body;​

Don't believe me? Why am I not surprised.

I don't believe you.

Let us now hear what Jesus has to say about where Children... i.e... you and I and every person on the planet comes from...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

Did you catch that? CHILD OF HELL. Is it literal? You bet it is.

That is Gehenna, a garbage dump. Jesus was within walking distance of it. And Jesus doesn't say that babies come from there, he says that the bad teaching of the Pharisees and scribes make people a child from there.

"Yeah but, Jesus is talking about the bad guys, not me, I'm special!"

It does not matter. We are all born unto sin. We are all children of Hell, with Satan as our Earthly Father. The bottom line is that we *all* came from Hell, which means you folks better start doing some thinking FAST.

If we came from Hell, how did we get there to begin with?

To answer your question, it is founded on a false premise.

 

[Base12]

Jesus doesn't say that babies come from there, he says that the bad teaching of the Pharisees and scribes make people a child from there.

Lol... You just contradicted yourself. As usual... I take the verse literally, while you don't. Not only are babies born out of Hell, but some are born twofold. In other words, it is a cycle of death and rebirth... over and over again.

It's OK. These Truths can take years to accept. Some will never accept it. I get that.

Those that can 'read between the lines' can easily see that Gehenna was about *SEED* and where said Seed goes...

Leviticus 18:21
"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD."

Leviticus 20:2
"Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."

Leviticus 20:3
"And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name."

Leviticus 20:4
"And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:"

Now put the two together...

Seed goes into Gehenna. Children come from Gehenna.

I'll put it another way...

Seed goes into Gehenna. Nine months later a baby is born... from Gehenna.

Everyone knows (except you apparently) that the Lowest Parts of the Earth is a reference to Hell, yet Hell is where babies come from.

The Bereans on this forum should be studying this out. When they do, they will see this 'Hell = Womb' theme all over the Bible.

Another example...

Isaiah 51:1
"Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged."

The 'Pit' is another reference to the Underworld, Hell, Abyss, etc. etc. And, once again, Children are born from it. Ah, but there's a twist isn't there?

These are RIGHTEOUS people being born out of the Pits of Hell! So who is Mom?

Isaiah 51:2
"Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

Bam! Sarah's Womb is being referenced as the Pit! Where does the Beast come from?

Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The Pit is where all Life comes from. Ya dig?

Long story short...

The Lake of Fire is not the end of the story. Those that are tossed in *pass through the fire* to Moloch. Remember, Moloch (another allusion to the Womb) is where Seed goes to become a Child of Gehenna. Rinse and repeat if necessary.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

just not this body.

It would be great if you offered chapter and verse to illuminate your reasoning. As it is, this thread is full of squishy speculation. Every other post seems to have been written not to illuminate but rather to demonstrate the writer's knowledge of alleged esoterica; i.e., a thorough waste of time.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

things that are literal in the other world appear as parables here to the natural mind.

Where do you get this stuff? I bet you own a buttload of candles.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

This is a quotation of Deut 30:13. And God saying that obedience is not too hard for you.




This is an allegory, you can tell because it uses the words "as it were a". John is also seeing this in heaven (see verse 1). This isn't "hell".




What form did I say the earth had? There was no land in verse 1, as it was a day 3 creation. As such, there would not be "oceans", there would be only "ocean". Do you actually know your way around Genesis 1?






I am not sure who "well knows it". But I do agree it the lake of fire is not literal, but rather a picture.




Your bible certainly has alot different words than mine.

Genesis 3:23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The facts are: banishment in unknown direction, placement sword on east side, and no mention of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This has nothing to do with passing through the fire. Adam and Eve were in Eden, and the were thrown out.




I believe the parable. I unpacked it for you.

If you believe it isn't a parable, but rather literal, then how is my unpacking incorrect? (15 pages in, and nobody has given that a shot yet)

Your patience is inspirational and a testament to the love and glory of YHWH.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

Where do you get this stuff? I bet you own a buttload of candles.

At 27 minutes, I tried to edit and could not. I wanted to add, for the sake of any pearl-clutchers amongst us, that a buttload is an actual unit of measurement.

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

the problem is, i can give all sorts of references, and spend hours doing work. But it won't do one bit of difference to stubborn minds.

So why participate? Can I just throw any Bravo Sierra out there with nothing to indicate the source isn't my ample fanny and you're gonna believe it?... or do you just reflexively disagree with everything as a way to entertain yourself?

 

[Bob Dobbalina]

I don't reflexively disagree with everything and i am not trying to entertain me either.
You can throw anything out...and if it has something in it where i can feel the words..and I know it's His context..
I would want to talk about what you said... It's hard on the forum, because of how it is, and the way threads are set up..
to get a sense of anyone, at least for me. Base12 could be the Borg, or a nice little old man in Topeka who likes gnostic academic articles now that he retired from teaching college, or or or... and you could be ? I'm not judging you or anyone because I don't know your trials... and life.

I like you, though I don't follow most of what you have to say, nor agree with what I do understand. I tend to be blunt and you could very easily have taken offense at my questions but you didn't. My questions were sincere and you answered with patience and grace. Kudos to you. I still find your answers and your position on some- most- of the questions at hand perplexing, but your willingness to engage the questions without rancor is refreshing and commendable. I'm going to continue to read and pray for discernment; perhaps the clouds will part and I'll see more clearly. Regardless, your kindness is noted and appreciated.

 

[Base12]

How do you equate "lowest parts of the earth" with "hell"?

Right here...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Just about every Denomination teaches that Jesus descended into Hell after his death.

Yet, Hell where babies come from...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Ephesians 4:9 is speaking of Jesus descending into Mary's Womb to become born, like this verse...

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

The link between these verses are undeniable, yet the Church will have us believe that Jesus went to hell to 'release captives' or some nonsense.

Now then...

Having said that, I believe that Abraham's Bosom is a real place and still exists. In fact, Abraham's Bosom is described in the Book of Revelation. There are untold numbers of Saved that are 'resting' there now.