The False Doctrine of "Hell"

gives new meaning to my chronic fatigue. fatigue....got exhausted just reading.
One cant know what evil is least you know what good is. It isnt about good believing or good doing, it is about good being.

And you dont have to live that miserable exhausted life that you choose to live in, I may be sick in my body but that does not effect my joy with a mind of Christ that is everything good and holy. May I ask why you are so opposed to live the life of Christ and condemn me for living it? Adam lived it knowing this difference, Moses, Abraham did, Jesus did, 120 came to know this deference.
 
your version jesus isn’t christ.
No, that is your accusation of me from ignorance of the truth. Jesus was Christ because he was anointed of God.
christ didnt ‘become’ a god.
Christ is Gods Spirit in man, man anointed of God, Christ in me, the mercy seat, the place where God and man come together as one. See Jesus in John 17, he explains this union very thorough.

Beware of anything that would separate you from Him and to deny to be as Jesus was one in Him.

God does not ask me to be as other people as yourself in your religious beliefs, He is asking me to be exactly like Himself to be in His same image. You are not the way the truth and life no more than I am, but the difference is I live it as Jesus lived in the Father.
 
Gary Mac said:
If one is ignorant then he is innocent of charge, but if one knows a truth and denies it then one is guilty. Adam didnt betray God at all, he obeyed and learned a difference. He became the image of God that God origionally intended. Gen 3:22. Abraham, Moses, Jesus 120 all did the same.

Knowledge of good and evil comes by God alone manifest in you .

Your theology as well as your "law knowledge" leave MUCH to be desired. Don't quit your day job! :p
 
Your theology as well as your "law knowledge" leave MUCH to be desired. Don't quit your day job! :p
Actually I didnt make the law for Spirit as you think that I did but thanks anyway but I really cant take credit for it, all I could do was receive it, and you can read about the Spirit of God in the book and how you are supposed to have it in yourself. Obviously what is written doesn't work for you and His Spirit leaves a lot to be desired in your religion is the reason that you mock Him. .

I quit my day job years ago. .
 
Prove it says that

Thar train left the station days ago. If you have been following my deliberately pointed posts to Christadelphians on this and other threads, you should understand that it is beneath their "dignity" to supply anyone with a Scripture back to whatever crazy thing they say.

In the same manner, should you or I ask them about their bastardized portion of Scripture that they claim demonstrates the "Scripture-based reason " for what they believe, you will get nothing more than a "Because I say-so" as a reason.

Inconsistency is one of many hall marks of a cult, and in that regard the Christadelphians are no exception to that particular apologetic axiom
 
Thar train left the station days ago. If you have been following my deliberately pointed posts to Christadelphians on this and other threads, you should understand that it is beneath their "dignity" to supply anyone with a Scripture back to whatever crazy thing they say.

In the same manner, should you or I ask them about their bastardized portion of Scripture that they claim demonstrates the "Scripture-based reason " for what they believe, you will get nothing more than a "Because I say-so" as a reason.

Inconsistency is one of many hall marks of a cult, and in that regard the Christadelphians are no exception to that particular apologetic axiom
I know - its called pilling on - LOL
 
I know - its called pilling on - LOL

No, you are misusing a football penalty term incorrectly. Piling on refers to the practice of tackling the opponent player with the ball, and then have the whole team pile up on the man on the ground.

Even the term "bandwagon" is inaccurate. That happens when several members of the opposition say the same thing about another. because I PROVED the Christadelphians to be using a double standard the term "inconsistent" is more accurate.
 
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I know that He, at any time, can take away that mind that guards and imprisons you....so that you can see.
Her did that indeed just as He did the same in Jesus in Matt 3:16.
It's all a bit as coding... all the meanings of all the words were coded for you by that 'mind' of this world...
but He can wipe that away, if He likes you, and all can be recoded to His version...
and you will understand immediately. See?
He did wipe away the world mentality to walk as He walks in His same light.

It isnt a matter of if He likes me or not it is a matter of me being like Him by the same Spirit be in me who was in Christ Jesus. And I did understand immediately just as Jesus understood immediately when He came to him as well. You haven had that same understanding from God Jesus had have you?
That will be nice.
It was indeed.
Since before you said on this thread to me that ignorance is innocent of charges... then....
I wouldn't know what to say about the first line in your reply that I am ignorant of the truth... (smile)
One cant know the truth least you have from God that what jesus received form Him His truth. Matt 3:16. You haven't received that same truth Jesus did have you.
That would mean I am innocent of the truth of this world...(its tree of good and evil) ..

you are innocent from ignorance. But once you have received the promise of He will come to you and be in you then reject it as you are doing then you are guilty and the truth is not in you.
a very good thing! :) And it will be a lovely day in heaven with Him when we go to our Change....

It was indeed.
and I am free of this world and its type of body and mindset and reality. It was not to posture
If you were free then you wouldn't be in this suffering sate that you live in in this world. You are bound by it.
that early christians waited to go.... as in a vigil... every moment here packed up and ready

early Christians became like Him just as we today do. He in me and II in him are one.
on their doorsteps...to go Home. And though you make fun of that attitude..I will

He is at your door knocking this day.
stay that way waiting for the Change.
We who has made the change are as He is.
I met Him Gary.. and he is a Being, not a 'substance' to be passed about....

Had you met the same One Jesus met you would be like Him instead of this planet of the aps you are of.
The anointing means something else...
Only to you who has dictated to God your beliefs for anointing.
and not what you think.

True it isnt what I think at all it is what He thinks in me.
Christ came here to show us His way!, His love, and receive our comforter, His Spirit.
And I have the same Love in me Jesus had in himself. It is the way of God.
That is what it is to be anointed... to be His set aside souls... who He protects and talks to and who listen to Him.
Yes be like Him walk as He walks perfect as He is perfect holy, pure and without sin.
That He showed the steps we need to take to be saved, doesn't take away from that He is deity, and was deity before every coming here.
to this forsaken place. All of Scripture is He showing us His context, so we can understand and learn about Him.
But He also understands us and our situation and came here Himself.
Exactly be a I Am. just as Jesus said come unto me be where I am in the Father yourself. .
The things Christ did were to show us what we need to do... parables as living playouts,

the thing Christ does shows us who we are in living playouts.
and not because he was a man who became a god.
God never became a man He always has been Spirit and in man. He never changes, only you are trying to change Him into your image.
We are that helpless and dumb because of the fall
We in Christ all thighs has opened to us just as it was opened to Jesus and the rest of these we read of. Noting is chidden that was hidden. A new heaven and earth was opened to us. and all things became new. See Matt 3:16. It happened in Jesus as well.
that He did need to show us what it means to have His Spirit...otherwise we would never be free.

We who has received are free indeed from the oppressions that you have placed on your god.
Legally, he did all this, in our place (as his sons), to end the legal hold and restore us because again, we could not
ever get out of here otherwise.
Leaglly we all do the same as Jesus did, same walk as He walks in His same light, same signs follow us who do, we picked up that cross and continued where he left off.
You always claim when speaking to me that 'eden was law' and that you are free,
Eden is law, dont eat, do this do that.
always equating eden with something bad, but that is a confusion of His creation and law (love) with the
legalistic world and law of satan.
Yes Satan is of law. Christ is of Spirit. Big difference and even Adam recognized this difference, Gen 3;22. You however have not recognized this difference. That is very obvious.
He came to abolish the curse incurred by Adam...
But you cling to the Eden of Adam.
that has had a stranglehold on us since the fall.
No' only in you -- not we who are free in Christ from the laws of Eden.
The fall created the legal situation. Ponder that you have that point backwards Gary... the fall did not free man, it ensnared him
in the satanic mindset which is depraved carnality.
The fall opend up Gods kingdom in us. Least you fall to self God is not able to do anything in you. Self has control over you.
Christ resolved that legal situation by the cross, and made it possible for us to be saved.
And the cross was death to the flesh man, the fall of the flesh man, and resurrection of the Spirit man. Something that you cant relate to in the death of carnality.
Distinguish that never in all of history did any man escape the fallen situation and that He didn't have to but he chose to come here,
to make it possible we to go home, because He Loves and He wants us back.
True and as long as you do not fall and let Christ arise in you you never will know Him at all.
Of course the goal is to Christlike, to be restored to His nature and escape the nature of this world.
No the results is Christ like. It isn't an effort at all it is something we receive as a gift from God. You are trying instead of receiving.
But that union (you mentioned in your reply I am quoting), at least while still alive here, is a promise of the Change...
that we are sealed to Him, something Christ made possible when He came from heaven to this lowly earth.Amd that promice is fulfilled in all who has made that change from self to His nature where the old man has fallen and the new man of Christ has risen from that death.

His souls will have our change to the imperishable body we lost which was in Eden, as Paul describes.

His souls already has as Jesus described that you will be if. Pul didnt hac=ve a clue what it was to be in Christ as Jesus was in Christ. Anointed of God.
Paul is a soul who met God... now why would God allow that if God did not like Paul?

I hope you read this.

I did and Paul never met God he formed opinions about his god. For had he met God he would have been in Him as Jesus was in Him. Instead Paul was a sinner, Jesus wasn't and teaches that all in the Father are not sinner's but the righteousness of God In Christ, Christ in us, Gods anointing in us.

Your problem is you follow the ways of Paul instead of the ways of Jesus.
 
Her did that indeed just as He did the same in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

He did wipe away the world mentality to walk as He walks in His same light.

It isnt a matter of if He likes me or not it is a matter of me being like Him by the same Spirit be in me who was in Christ Jesus. And I did understand immediately just as Jesus understood immediately when He came to him as well. You haven had that same understanding from God Jesus had have you?

It was indeed.

One cant know the truth least you have from God that what jesus received form Him His truth. Matt 3:16. You haven't received that same truth Jesus did have you.


you are innocent from ignorance. But once you have received the promise of He will come to you and be in you then reject it as you are doing then you are guilty and the truth is not in you.


It was indeed.

If you were free then you wouldn't be in this suffering sate that you live in in this world. You are bound by it.


early Christians became like Him just as we today do. He in me and II in him are one.


He is at your door knocking this day.

We who has made the change are as He is.


Had you met the same One Jesus met you would be like Him instead of this planet of the aps you are of.

Only to you who has dictated to God your beliefs for anointing.


True it isnt what I think at all it is what He thinks in me.

And I have the same Love in me Jesus had in himself. It is the way of God.

Yes be like Him walk as He walks perfect as He is perfect holy, pure and without sin.

Exactly be a I Am. just as Jesus said come unto me be where I am in the Father yourself. .


the thing Christ does shows us who we are in living playouts.

God never became a man He always has been Spirit and in man. He never changes, only you are trying to change Him into your image.

We in Christ all thighs has opened to us just as it was opened to Jesus and the rest of these we read of. Noting is chidden that was hidden. A new heaven and earth was opened to us. and all things became new. See Matt 3:16. It happened in Jesus as well.


We who has received are free indeed from the oppressions that you have placed on your god.

Leaglly we all do the same as Jesus did, same walk as He walks in His same light, same signs follow us who do, we picked up that cross and continued where he left off.

Eden is law, dont eat, do this do that.

Yes Satan is of law. Christ is of Spirit. Big difference and even Adam recognized this difference, Gen 3;22. You however have not recognized this difference. That is very obvious.

But you cling to the Eden of Adam.

No' only in you -- not we who are free in Christ from the laws of Eden.

The fall opend up Gods kingdom in us. Least you fall to self God is not able to do anything in you. Self has control over you.

And the cross was death to the flesh man, the fall of the flesh man, and resurrection of the Spirit man. Something that you cant relate to in the death of carnality.

True and as long as you do not fall and let Christ arise in you you never will know Him at all.

No the results is Christ like. It isn't an effort at all it is something we receive as a gift from God. You are trying instead of receiving.


His souls already has as Jesus described that you will be if. Pul didnt hac=ve a clue what it was to be in Christ as Jesus was in Christ. Anointed of God.


I did and Paul never met God he formed opinions about his god. For had he met God he would have been in Him as Jesus was in Him. Instead Paul was a sinner, Jesus wasn't and teaches that all in the Father are not sinner's but the righteousness of God In Christ, Christ in us, Gods anointing in us.

Your problem is you follow the ways of Paul instead of the ways of Jesus.

I’m answering only the first part now... chronic fatigue and all... the part where you said He liking you or not does not matter.

You can try to be like Him all day but He has to choose you, and bring you to Him. If he doesn’t you’ll go nowhere. It’s not by your own willing it to be you can come to Him.
It isnt about trying at all, it is about relinquishing self and receive from God to become as He is instead of as you are. And that is the choice every single person ever lived makes. It is up to you to receive Him in His way, Youi act as if God is going to force His will on you.
To mention He liking you or not was my way of saying that.
Gods will for all is they come to His same knowledge of good and evil.
There are those He does not like.....
God loves all for He is Love it is His nature, what He doesn't like is mans rejection of Him to gain His same nature for themselves and very few go to His lengths to be as He is, perfect as He is perfect. Holy, pure, and without sin as He gives man His own nature. . He could care less about theories for destines such as cosmos, Planet of the apes, realms, and anything else people conjure in their minds, all He cares about is you being as He is.
 
I know - its called pilling on - LOL
OOPS!!

Finally understood what you meant. You were making a comment about US "ganging up" on the cultists to tell them the truth.

Sometimes, I come up with dumb ideas, and jump to the wrong conclusion as I did in this case
 
Gary Mac said:
It isnt about trying at all, it is about relinquishing self and receive from God to become as He is instead of as you are. And that is the choice every single person ever lived makes. It is up to you to receive Him in His way, Youi act as if God is going to force His will on you.

Gods will for all is they come to His same knowledge of good and evil.

God loves all for He is Love it is His nature, what He doesn't like is mans rejection of Him to gain His same nature for themselves and very few go to His lengths to be as He is, perfect as He is perfect. Holy, pure, and without sin as He gives man His own nature. . He could care less about theories for destines such as cosmos, Planet of the apes, realms, and anything else people conjure in their minds, all He cares about is you being as He is.

From what you posted above ^^^ you do not seem to know the One, True God of the Bible.

1 John 4:
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Your theology is simply "work to love God; my theology says "God loves me already, thus I wok as a pleasure, not an obligation."
 
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No, you are misusing a football penalty term incorrectly. Piling on refers to the practice of tackling the opponent player with the ball, and then have the whole team pile up on the man on the ground.

Even the term "bandwagon" is inaccurate. That happens when several members of the opposition say the same thing about another. because I PROVED the Christadelphians to be using a double standard the term "inconsistent" is more accurate.
Oh lord relax - it was a joke
 
I see... your god doesn’t love or like anyone... but wants to have his will. Got it.
No you do not know the God Jesus leads us to who is Love. And obviously you do not get it who the God of Love is at all.

Your god is one that is yet to come and restore you to a place that doesn't exist and is only a figment of your imagination.

The God Jesus served and prayed to and the same one I serve and pray to is the One Jesus said His kingdom does not come with observation but is within you in Luke 17:20-21. This is the One that you do not know at all for He is Love and man is the temple of. You are waiting for a god that has no substance at all that you can rely on but only a belief from your imagination.

My God is who I Am. He in me and I in Him are one. John 17. It that great I Am that people are supposed to be but few who find His way and are as He is. His will is that all be as I Am. Which simply is Love.
 
I am utterly me, and God is God and Christ is Christ. Different persons.
Only because you have separated yourself from Him.
God gave each soul different gifts, qualities and attributes. We don't need to be clones (which you describe) to be in His gorgeous image. I am not Him, I am another person who relates to Him..and who listens to Him and He is another person, who I love.
My God and the One Jesus served is not a person at all but is a Spirit and resides in us.
You collapse everything into a oneness somehow.
No His Spirit in us collapses all these speculations about Him in real time manifestation
... not needed...
It isnt needed for one who has no intent for God manifesting Himself in you.
is the way the ego mind,
egos will not allow the God of heaven to be your own nature, disposition. your ego makes your god wait for you to approve him someday.
or the Self functions, reducing everything to its one consciousness... And speaking of law, that was the horrible mind adam acquired at the fall as his entity and prison guard, ruling him.
There is only one consciousness of God and that is of the One who came to Jesus and opened his mind to him is the one you reject in favor of another.

And actually Adam gaind the same mind of God that Jesus did and he became like Him as well the same mind. See Gen 3:22. And Matt 3:16 this is how God gives us His mind He comes and opens it to us just as He did in these and others.
The laws of Eden will hold you in a rut where Gods hands are toed by the laws you have established for your eden to control your god.

Whereas soon God's souls will be free of that horrib le mind... and will rule with Him in heaven, which was exactly the Creation He created and that He said is "Good". Except now ever more Good in that the fall will never happen again!
Soon as in 6000 years of people waiting for him to come and deliver them into this promised land you call eden? And do you know why for you the fall will never happen again? Because you are to proud to fall from that self flesh mentality, and put on His mind instead. You are stuck in a flesh mentality waiting for something that actually is at your door knuckling this day but as long as your ego will not allow you to fall from self and stop dictating to him your own will for him this 6000 year old eden that people never reach will continue until it is to late to know Him and you are in a grave. He is a God of the living, niot the dead, it is to late by then for the grave is not going to reveal God at all, He is a God of the living not the dead and His kingdom is in man. You just dont believe Him that it is.
 
A note to e v e :

I hope you see this and get back in touch with me. Although we disagree on most matters, your writings intrigued me and I’d like to converse with you again. I resort to writing here because I can’t find you otherwise for some reason. I hope and pray that you’re still on CARM as I believe you have much to bless people with.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.✌️
 
It is difficult prove something doesn't exist when somebody imagines it is true.

Yes, the church systems is bursting at the seams with people who believe imagined up things.


Such an proof is a form of proving a negative, however there are means of proving a negative. To do so, you typically show something isn't there when it should be present, I.e. absence of evidence is evidence of absence. For example, if you don't see your pet elephant in your living room (absence of evidence), you can safely conclude the elephant isn't in your living room (evidence of absence).

The doctrine of "hell" is something people imagine is taught in the bible. It isn't.\

You are quite correct. But as you said, just try and get that through their heads.

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First, notice that "hell" is absent in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes a material universe. Everything in Genesis 1 is tangible. There are no netherworld regions in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 describes the sun, moon, earth, etc... as objects, putting Hebrews and Christians thousands of years ahead of everybody else. Genesis 1 describes the creation. Yet there is no "hell" or underworld described or mentioned.

Second, notice that "hell" is absent where it should be present in Genesis 3. This is the passage where Adam is cursed The curse on Adam and Eve is painful childbirth, conflict, work, and "from dust you are and to dust you will return". The curse on Adam and Eve is not eternal life in fiery torment, or whatever. The lie of the serpent is that if you sin you will live forever, the truth is that you will die. The doctrine of hell teaches that you will live forever, it is the same lie the serpent told.

Third, notice that the condemnation is consistent through the bible. In Romans 5, Paul notes that by one man sin entered the world and death by sin. Death in the New Testament links back to death in Genesis 3. It does not link back to eternal life in fiery torment. In teaching of the salvation of man, the bible teaches that man is saved from death, not from eternal conscious torment.

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Regarding passages used to support such a monumental doctrine as a redefinition of death are thin. The primary passage is "the rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31 (Link). But look closely at the passage, this is a parable by Jesus, not a description of actual events. For example:
  • Heaven isn't mentioned in the passage. It speaks of "the bosom of Abraham". This place isn't defined in scripture,
  • Likewise, "hades" or "hell" place mentioned in the passage isn't described in scripture either.

Well it kind of is. In the Old Testament, a bunch of people and all their household belongings fell into it. It turns out that it is just whatever is below the surface of the earth.

  • These people are taken bodily. The rich man looks with his eyes, he wants a drop of water from a finger placed upon his tongue. These body parts rot away in the grave, they aren't carried away by angels.

That's right. That isn't going to work for a "disembodied souls" concept is it?

  • There is a gulf between Abraham and the rich man, yet the rich man wants Lazarus to come visit him.
  • The rich man speaks and has a conversation with Abraham. Not with angels, or whatever else. He speaks to Abraham.
  • Abraham is dead and has not received his reward (Heb. 11:8, 13, 39, 40). Abraham isn't in Abraham's bosom.

Yeah they tend to willfully overlook that one don't they?

It can be argued that Jesus did not call it a parable, however only 11 of his 26+ parables in Luke are actually called parables. What the story in Luke 16 is actually about is in verses 14-15 Jesus attacks the Pharisees and materialism, and this materialism is why they killed him. He tells a parable specifically directed to the Pharisees, and for them to understand. Examine the characters and the story:
  • a Rich Man (High Priest Caiphas)
  • his Father (Annas) (High priest when Jesus was a child)
  • the sons of the Father (Eleazar, Jonathan, Theophilus, Matthias, Ananus) (also high priests)
  • who all were wealthy
  • were well studied in Moses and the Prophets.
  • And his promise to these men was that though one would rise from the dead, they would not repent.

It actually happened. Lazarus rose from the dead and they all the more wanted to kill him. Jesus rose from the dead and they did not repent.

This parable was given to the Pharisees, not to somebody who has never the God of Israel and his son. This parable isn't for the unknowing, this parable is for those well steeped in the bible.

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In conclusion, the doctrine of "hell" is Pagan claptrap and should be discarded as a doctrine. The wages of sin is death (not eternal conscious torment), and the gift of God is eternal life.
 
Hi Stephen,

What do you make of these verses?

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NASB)

Revelation finally says what this 'lake' represents: "This is the second death" (vs 20:14)
It is not a literal place where the dead in hell are hurled into a BIGGER lake!
 
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