The former atheist, now theist arborist has some weird theology

[treeplanter]

1. Do you agree that murder is a sin?

Yep

2. OK, when one commits murder, one CHOOSES to do so, right?

Yep

3. But if a human picks up a gun and intentionally shoots another human in the heart he is sinning, right? No one MAKES him pull the trigger

Correct

4. So we have just agreed that one cannot sin with using one's ............ [DRUM ROLL, PLEASE] ............... FREE WILL!

Nope, incorrect

A true free will entails more than just the ability to choose what sins we commit
And when and where and how and why we commit them

A true free will also entails an ability to choose sinlessness

God consciously and purposefully created you incapable of sinlessness
You, therefore, have no true free will

You continue to confuse choice with a genuine free will

the fact that we are created such that we all inevitably use our free will to sin

Do yourself a favor, stigs, and look up the definition of the word 'inevitably'

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Yep


Yep


Correct


Nope, incorrect.

So you changed your mind between 3 and 4. You agreed with 3 that murder is freely sinning, and now you say you were incorrect. One of the few times you were correct, you're now correcting yourself and claiming you were incorrect. You are confused beyond help.

A true free will entails more than just the ability to choose what sins we commit

Correct. It also includes the ability to reject sin as well as the ability to choose something neither sinful nor virtuous like eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

And when and where and how and why we commit them

Yeah that bit of stupidity on your part was refuted in my last post which of course you cowardly ignored and stupidly just typed again.

A true free will also entails an ability to choose sinlessness

Which will fail like the ability to jump over the moon.

You, therefore, have no true free will

So who or what exactly forced you to type that asinine sentence?

You continue to confuse choice with a genuine free will

So if you make the choice of vanilla over chocolate, who or what is forcing you to do so, since you are claiming you don't make the choice freely?

 

[treeplanter]

So if you make the choice of vanilla over chocolate, who or what is forcing you to do so, since you are claiming you don't make the choice freely?

Are you a moron?

I have been saying to you for years now that we have, at our disposal, an almost infinite number of choices available to us
Including vanilla v chocolate
And including what sins to commit, and when to commit them, etc

This, however, does NOT make for a genuine free will
If you truly had a free will then you would also be free to choose never sinning
You would, in fact, be free to choose the very purpose for which God created man in the 1st place

A purpose that He, then, in an angry snit of stupendously self-contradictory and inherently oxymoronic, as well as regularly moronic, magnitude decided to undermine

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Are you a moron?

"It originally referred to people of the second order in a former and discarded classification of intellectual disability, with a mental age of three to seven years and an IQ of 25–50, above "idiot" (IQ below 25) and below "moron" (IQ of 51–70)."

Your classification would find you firmly in the first category, as this thread shows.

I have been saying to you for years now that we have, at our disposal, an almost infinite number of choices available to us
Including vanilla v chocolate

But we're not free to use our will when choosing either, right? What about rocky road? LOL. Folks, we're going to need a category lower than idiot. How about vegetative? People who enter Baskin-Robbins become robots, right? No free will.

If you truly had a free will then you would also be free to choose never sinning

How about breathing? Does the fact that we are not free to choose never breathing also prove that we can't freely choose butter pecan? Folks, is there a negative IQ scale?

 

[treeplanter]

"It originally referred to people of the second order in a former and discarded classification of intellectual disability, with a mental age of three to seven years and an IQ of 25–50, above "idiot" (IQ below 25) and below "moron" (IQ of 51–70)."

Your classification would find you firmly in the first category, as this thread shows.



But we're not free to use our will when choosing either, right? What about rocky road? LOL. Folks, we're going to need a category lower than idiot. How about vegetative? People who enter Baskin-Robbins become robots, right? No free will.



How about breathing? Does the fact that we are not free to choose never breathing also prove that we can't freely choose butter pecan? Folks, is there a negative IQ scale?

God created man {Adam} to live in fellowship and full communion with Himself

Adam defied God and God decided, as a consequence of this disobedience, to create every other man to come incapable of living in fellowship and full communion with Himself

Given the above, how can you possibly maintain that we, within the Christian conceptualization, possess a genuine and true free will?
You are denied, by God, the very thing that He supposedly created you for!

Drop the classification of intellectual disabilities, ice cream, and breathing smokescreens already and address what I am saying!


Oh, and by the way, please drop, also, the smarmy 'folks' schtick
It's cringey as all get out

 

[stiggy wiggy]

God created man {Adam} to live in fellowship and full communion with Himself

Adam defied God and God decided, as a consequence of this disobedience, to create every other man to come incapable of living in fellowship and full communion with Himself

Prove it, theist. Offer scripture supporting your bizarre belief that God made such a decision. What denomination are you involved with? Does your preacher preach that strange brand of theism? What biblical verses does he use to support it?

Given the above, ...........

Given by whom? You? LOL

Oh, and by the way, please drop, also, the smarmy 'folks' schtick

Folks, have you ever known a theist like this who hates his own god?

 

[treeplanter]

Prove it, theist. Offer scripture supporting your bizarre belief that God made such a decision.

Bizarre belief?

Well, yeah, actually it IS a bizarre belief
{the whole of Christianity is most certainly bizarre}

Most bizarre of all, though, is a self-proclaimed Christian who denies the Fall of Man and the need, henceforth, for Jesus Christ

Folks, it doesn't get any more bizarre than this!

Stiggy wiggy claims both:

1. To be a Christian
2. That there was no need for Jesus to have died on the cross because we don't need Him in order to be in communion with God

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Bizarre belief?

Well, yeah, actually it IS a bizarre belief

What does your bizarre belief have to do with Christianity, theist? And by the way, I notice you utterly failed to offer scripture to support that bizarre belief, theist.

Most bizarre of all, though, is a self-proclaimed Christian who denies the Fall of Man

Quote me doing that, theist.

Stiggy wiggy claims both:

1. To be a Christian
2. That there was no need for Jesus to have died on the cross because we don't need Him in order to be in communion with God

Treeplanter claims both:

1. To be an atheist
2. That OJ was innocent

 

[5wize]

I have no story, you imbecilic atheist. I'm merely pointing out your utter stupidity in claiming how we all use our FREE WILL to sin means we have no FREE WILL. What other idiotic beliefs would you like to espouse? That the fact that we all use our lungs to breathe means we have no lungs?

Stupidest belief in the history of CARM.

I swear, you are so stupid I’m surprised you can even find the floor in the morning.

You said free will only applies to decisions you actually have the ability to follow through with. Then you say no one has the ability to lead a sin free life.

Now given the above, maybe now you can figure out why your picture is next to the dictionary definition of dumb-f&$k.

 

[treeplanter]

Quote me doing that, theist.

Who chose that Adam's disobedience shall result in all men to come being incapable of perfect communion/sinlessness?

 

[stiggy wiggy]

I swear, you are so stupid I’m surprised you can even find the floor in the morning.

It's easy. I just look to where I find you knocked down after my CARM responses, and by George, there you are, a bloody mess

You said free will only applies to decisions you actually have the ability to follow through with.

Correct, which does not include living a sinless life.

Then you say no one has the ability to lead a sin free life.

Yeah, I just said that. Are you so stupid that you are contending that just because there are things we CANNOT do, that therefore we are not free to do anything?

Now given the above, maybe now you can figure out why your picture is next to the dictionary definition of dumb-f&$k.

Only a dumb-f&$k would think the dictionary would include "dumb-f&$k."

And I notice that in lieu of being able to come up with a response of his own, TP decided to give a bootlicking "like" to your dumb-f&$king post.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Who chose that Adam's disobedience shall result in all men to come being incapable of perfect communion/sinlessness?

No one did.

And I asked you to quote me denying the Fall of man. Do it, theist!

 

[treeplanter]

No one did.

And I asked you to quote me denying the Fall of man. Do it, theist!

The Fall of Man entails YHVH's decision to create all men to come in condemnation

If you believe in the Fall of Man then you believe that YHVH chose to create us without the ability to choose sinlessness
If you don't believe that YHVH chose to create us without the ability to choose sinlessness then you don't believe in the Fall of Man

 

[stiggy wiggy]

The Fall of Man entails YHVH's decision to create all men to come in condemnation

No it doesn't. You made that up, theist.

If you believe in the Fall of Man then you believe that YHVH chose to create us without the ability to choose sinlessness

In other words, theist, you believe we will all use our free will to sin. And since one cannot USE one's free will to sin without actually HAVING free will, one does indeed HAVE free will. Congrats! Once again you just shot down your own idiotic argument.

 

[treeplanter]

No it doesn't. You made that up, theist.

I did nothing of the sort

This is the Christian narrative

In other words, theist, you believe we will all use our free will to sin. And since one cannot USE one's free will to sin without actually HAVING free will, one does indeed HAVE free will. Congrats! Once again you just shot down your own idiotic argument.

No, that is NOT what I believe

I believe that we have the choice to sin or not at any given moment
{and how, where, why, etc}
but we do not have a free will because we were created incapable of choosing never to sin

 

[stiggy wiggy]

I did nothing of the sort

You made it up. That's why twice you have failed to back it up with scripture.

This is the Christian narrative

Then cough up the scripture, theist.

No, that is NOT what I believe

You believe we will all use our free will to sin. And since one cannot USE one's free will to sin without actually HAVING free will, one does indeed HAVE free will. Congrats! Once again you just shot down your own idiotic argument.

Reply

I believe that we have the choice to sin or not at any given moment

The free will to sin, so you changed your mind yet again. Now you DO believe in free will.

but we do not have a free will because we were created incapable of choosing never to sin

Idiotic. Free will is about what we choose to do, not what we can't do. I can't bench press 300 pounds, but only an imbecile would claim that means I have no free will.

 

[treeplanter]

You made it up. That's why twice you have failed to back it up with scripture.

Show me the scripture stating that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings, but also one in the same

Show me the scripture that talks about the Holy Trinity, stigs
Go on, cough it up!

Oops!
Can't do it, can ya?

Hmm...seems there ARE Christian beliefs that are not explicitly spelled out in the bible

You believe we will all use our free will to sin.

No, I do not

We all have a nearly infinite number of choices available to us, but this does not equal a true and genuine free will

Free will is more than just being able to choose which sins we commit and how, when, where, why, etc
A true and genuine free will also entails the choice of sinlessness

You, as a result of Adam's disobedience, are denied, by God, the ability to choose the very purpose that God, Himself, originally created the human race to fulfill

The very most important 'choice' that any human being could ever possibly be confronted with - and God chooses for you!

Christianity and the concept of free will are oil and water



Now, by all means, respond with yet another fallacious rerun post claiming that I recognize choice as free will

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Show me the scripture stating that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings, but also one in the same

Show me where I said they are "one in the same."

Now show me where scripture says God "decided" that we cannot live sinless lives.

Oops!

Clumsy oaf, aren't you?

Can't do it, can ya?

Where did I say there was scripture declaring that the Father and Son are "one in the same?" In fact if you were not such an ignoramus on the Bible you'd know that Jesus tells us that the Father is greater than He.

We all have a nearly infinite number of choices available to us,

Give me a number that is nearly infinite. Type it out.

but this does not equal a true and genuine free will

So explain how we FREELY make a choice without FREE will. You just keep typing the same dumb crap over and over again, as if repetition will evaporate their intrinsic stupidity.

Free will is more than just being able to choose which sins we commit and how, when, where, why,

You said that in your last reply. I responded by pointing out its intrinsic stupidity. Ignoring my response and repeating the stupidity won't help you look less stupid.

You, as a result of Adam's disobedience, are ........

In dealing with ME God deals with the results of MY obedience or disobedience, not Adam's.

Christianity and the concept of free will are oil and water

Jesus Christ forgives our free will sins.

 

[treeplanter]

Show me

Scripture never once addresses the Holy Trinity
Every Christian, nonetheless, embraces the concept of the Holy Trinity

Your idiotic claim that God is not responsible for our inability to live sinlessly, on the basis of scripture never explicitly saying so, has been blown out of the water!

"explain how we FREELY make a choice without FREE will"

I already have!

Free choice is NOT the same thing as free will, stiggy

Your claim to the contrary is nothing more than you just typing the same dumb crap over and over again, as if repetition will evaporate it's intrinsic stupidity

Ignoring my response and repeating the stupidity won't help you look less stupid.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Scripture never once addresses the Holy Trinity

Who said it did, theist? Are you now arguing with yourself again?

Every Christian, nonetheless, embraces the concept of the Holy Trinity

No they don't; caroljeen, for example and many others, some of whom I know personally.

Your idiotic claim that God is not responsible for our inability to live sinlessly, on the basis of scripture never explicitly saying so, has been blown out of the water!

So it's not in scripture. So you made it up? Thanks for your implicit admission.

Free choice is NOT the same thing as free will, stiggy

Yeah, right. and Holland is not the same thing as The Netherlands.

Your claim to the contrary is nothing more than you just typing the same dumb crap over and over again, as if repetition will evaporate it's intrinsic stupidity

You like my phraseology, I see. Your posts are becoming like homages to me. I should be flattered, but I consider the source.

Ignoring my response and repeating the stupidity won't help you look less stupid.

Dang, that sounds familiar. Is it shameless plagiarism or just dried up originality?