The foundation of all salvation.

TomFL said:

Theo stated
That's not referring to "regeneration".
It's referring to "(eternal) life".
I know you want to conflate the two, but your "proof-texts" will NEVER be convincing, since you refuse to recognize the distinction between the two concepts:

regeneration --> faith --> eternal life.

Sorry but regeneration supplies life that is of eternal duration

Carm again

Regeneration

It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life.

Regeneration is a spiritual change so that the person then at the spiritual change has eternal life

there is nothing about faith in there to support your regeneration - faith - eternal life claim

Regeneration produces life and that life is eternal

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody handbook of theology

In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.
Berkhoff manual of christian doctrine

We may define regeneration as follows: Regeneration is a secret act of God in which he imparts new spiritual life to us.
Grudem systematic theology

Those born of the Spirit receive not an extension of mortal life but eternal life, a life which has the quality of God’s own. Regeneration applies to the inner self, not to the body, but those who have received the Spirit’s inward work can anticipate the Spirit’s renovation of their physical bodies in the resurrection.
Lexham survey of theology

being born of the spirit results in one having eternal life

compare with CARM

Regeneration

It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life.

When the spirit effects the change that is regeneration the person has eternal life

Now regarding John. He is concerned with men being born again

when he writes he is not writing about physical life someone already has but spiritual life which is lacking

John 20:31 (ESV)
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

it follows upon faith
 
Carbon said:
Since you have a difficult time seeing the truth of many other passages I expect you not to see the obvious truth here in Eph 2:8 as well.
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You offer only your opinion

Calvin agreed with me

But they commonly misintepret this text, and restrict the word ‘gift’ to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating his earlier statement in other words. He does not mean that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God … " (from, Calvin’s Commentaries 4:145

Robertson agrees with me
And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.
Word pictures in the New Testament

Vincent agrees with me

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace, etc.

This may truly be called exceeding riches of grace, for ye are saved by grace. Grace has the article, the grace of God, in vv. 5, 7.

And that

Not faith, but the salvation.

Of God

Emphatic. Of God is it the gift.

Word Studies in the New Testament.

Scripture agreed with me

Romans 6:23 (ESV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Theo1689 said:
He doesn't care what Calvin was talking about.

He's only interested in finding texts he can twist to support his false teachings.
Click to expand...
Says the one who tried to twist BDAG into saying what it did not

The one who refuses to answer an argument and cried harrassment when asked to provide a response and then later falsely claims he answered it many times

You have done nothing to prove anything false
 
Carbon said:
You have no idea what Calvin is talking about.
Click to expand...
Do you have anything more than your opinion to offer ?

This is scripture

Romans 6:23 (ESV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Theo1689 said:
You offer nothing new, you're simply wasting everyone's time and wasting CARM resources by cutting-and-pasting the same garbage that I've already refuted.
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Sorry but your imagination is getting the better of you

You have to do more that say no its not to refute anything Theo

This one verse alone refutes you

Colossians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Our spiritual resurrection with Christ is through faith in the operation of God

That speaks of regeneration

further having had your sins forgiven (verse 13) precedes being quickened (regenerated)

and of course scripture is clear faith precedes remission

Additional however as was noted regeneration imparts life that is eternal

There is no such thing as regenerative life which is not eternal

You attempt to bifurcate life and eternal life but the bible uses them interchangeably

1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

No Theo you have not refuted anything and you yourself are refuted
 
ReverendRV said:
Regeneration gives us Life, and Life lets us have Faith. Faith is the Gift of God because Life is the Gift of God...

As a non-Calvinist, you will want to talk about whether Calvinists believe Regeneration and Faith are two distinct Gifts of God. I'm sure some Calvinists will say they are indeed two different Gifts...
Click to expand...
you claim life lets us have faith
What is your scripture?
 
Carbon said:
Faith is always by forced consent.
It’s a serious error to believe that faith can ever be an arbitrary act of the will. That a man can ever believe or disbelieve because he chooses to.
How does that make any sense to you?
Faith is always the involuntary response of the mind to the evidence which has been presented to it.

Isn’t faith always grounded on what the mind considers sufficient evidence?

Augustine said,
We know what rests on reason; we believe what’s rests on authority,
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what you are ignoring is that the verb form of faith means "to entrust yourself to"
How can that be forced? What scripture or logic teaches that we can be forced to entrust ourselves to jesus?
 
Sethproton said:
you claim life lets us have faith
What is your scripture?
Click to expand...

For someone who whines about people misrepresenting him,
it's really NOT a good luck on you to MISREPRESENT others.

We do NOT "claim life lets us have faith".

Or was your misrepresentation intentional?
Perhaps you feel justified in miserpresenting others just because you think they've misrepresented you?
 
TomFL said:
Sorry but your imagination is getting the better of you

You have to do more that say no its not to refute anything Theo

This one verse alone refutes you

Colossians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Our spiritual resurrection with Christ is through faith in the operation of God

That speaks of regeneration

further having had your sins forgiven (verse 13) precedes being quickened (regenerated)

and of course scripture is clear faith precedes remission

Additional however as was noted regeneration imparts life that is eternal

There is no such thing as regenerative life which is not eternal

You attempt to bifurcate life and eternal life but the bible uses them interchangeably

1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

No Theo you have not refuted anything and you yourself are refuted
Click to expand...
Colossians 2:12,13 is referring to regeneration? Show us.

Also then you believe in baptismal regeneration??
 
Reformedguy said:
Colossians 2:12,13 is referring to regeneration? Show us.

Also then you believe in baptismal regeneration??
Click to expand...
Define regeneration

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God



REGENERATING (Titus 3:5)

Although the word regeneration is used only twice in the Bible (Titus 3:5, where it refers to the new birth, and Mt 19:28 where it refers to the millennial kingdom), the concept of being born again is found in other passages, notably John 3. Technically, it is God’s act of begetting eternal life in the one who believes in Christ.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972).

Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.38
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody handbook of theology

Baptismal regeneration ?

I do not make the mistake of believing every mention of the word baptism refers to water

Matthew 3:11 (KJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
Reformedguy said:
No one says it's "forced". Only the ignorant
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That is calvinist double talk. As a Calvinist you will talk about how the person had no voluntary participation in receiving the Spirit, that it was done completely outside of their will, You describe a forced event yet do not want it to be called what it is?
The opposite of forced is voluntary. When you deny force, then you are allowing voluntary participation.
But you deny voluntary participation.
Which is it?
 
TomFL said:
Define regeneration

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God



REGENERATING (Titus 3:5)

Although the word regeneration is used only twice in the Bible (Titus 3:5, where it refers to the new birth, and Mt 19:28 where it refers to the millennial kingdom), the concept of being born again is found in other passages, notably John 3. Technically, it is God’s act of begetting eternal life in the one who believes in Christ.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972).

Regeneration may be defined as the communication of divine life to the soul … as the impartation of a new nature … or heart … and the production of a new creation.38
Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody handbook of theology

Baptismal regeneration ?

I do not make the mistake of believing every mention of the word baptism refers to water

Matthew 3:11 (KJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Click to expand...
If you can get a Cavinist to define anything, that would be a success. My experience here is that they do not want to be held down to any specific definition for crucial terms because they would then be pinned down to an actual position to defend, Keep it vague, keep it changing, Deny everything that gets too specific.
 
Sethproton said:
That is calvinist double talk. As a Calvinist you will talk about how the person had no voluntary participation in receiving the Spirit, that it was done completely outside of their will, You describe a forced event yet do not want it to be called what it is?
The opposite of forced is voluntary. When you deny force, then you are allowing voluntary participation.
But you deny voluntary participation.
Which is it?
Click to expand...
Scripture is clear the Spirit is received through faith

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Sethproton said:
That is calvinist double talk.
Click to expand...

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it "double talk".

Sethproton said:
As a Calvinist you will talk about how the person had no voluntary participation in receiving the Spirit, that it was done completely outside of their will, You describe a forced event yet do not want it to be called what it is?
Click to expand...

No, he DIDN'T "describe a forced event".
"Involuntary" doesn't mean "forced".
If there was opposition, THEN it would be "forced".
But no opposition, means no "force".

Please don't assume that everyone here doesn't know your anti-Calvinist bias, and your attempt to inaccurately twist what we teach, just because you don't happen to like it.

Sethproton said:
The opposite of forced is voluntary.
Click to expand...

Wrong.
The opposite of "involuntary" is "voluntary".
The opposite of "forced" is "unforced", or perhaps, "without opposition".

Sethproton said:
When you deny force, then you are allowing voluntary participation.
Click to expand...

Wrong again.
(And if you don't believe me, just go to year nearest high school or community college and ask an English teacher you trust. ;) ;) )
 
Sethproton said:
If you can get a Cavinist to define anything, that would be a success. My experience here is that they do not want to be held down to any specific definition for crucial terms because they would then be pinned down to an actual position to defend, Keep it vague, keep it changing, Deny everything that gets too specific.
Click to expand...

The fact that you have to try to demonize people simply for disagreeing with you is very telling.

Btw, what's a "Cavinist"? ;)
 
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