The foundation of all salvation.

ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Joe said:
Your experience is what I would consider classic regeneration.
  • Living in unbelief and rejecting Christ - By all accounts, dead to God and alive to sin. - Heart is unbelieving, hard and callous towards God
  • Heard about and yet not truly understanding the value of the Gospel while in this dead to God state. Basically it is foolishness, just another religion.
  • No personal calling of God while in this state.
  • At some point in your life, the Spirit of God engages with you and begins personally calling you.
  • This calling makes you aware of the realities of the living Christ, your need for Him, the state of this world, the promises of a new life
  • At this point faith is being wrought by the Spirit of the Lord and the Gospel - The Spirit of the Lord is giving you ears to hear and eyes to see.
  • As the Spirit of the Lord continues to work within your heart, you begin to believe in what you once rejected, and because you do believe you must come to grips with repenting.
  • When the Spirit of the Lord is done; you have belief, the substance for that belief (the Gospel that you once rejected); you now realize your need for Christ; you no longer value your old original life, but value the new life of being forgiven and one with God
  • At this point your heart is no longer stone - unbelieving, hard and callous towards God, but He has given you a heart of flesh - believing, willingly obedient towards God. And it is at this point you call out to God and begin living by the faith that He wrought inside you. It is by the Spirit of the Lord that He gave you a new heart and caused you to live towards God.
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He should disagree with your 4th bullet point; he says he engages with the Gospel personally. He won't want to differentiate between the Gospel and the Person of the Holy Ghost; but he does. I used to defend him all the time because I thought he taught he needed at least two Graces of God; IE the Gospel and the application of the Holy Ghost. But after a long time, he cleared it up and says the Gospel Alone is the only Grace of God he needs...

This is one reason I said something about Cults using the same Words we use; but there is a lot of difference when it comes to Meaning. Sure, if the Holy Spirit handles the sharp two-edged Sword of the Gospel, this is Efficacious Grace; Irresistible every time. But HE himself takes the Hilt of Gospel away from the Spirit; and pricks his own heart...

I could say more about the following bullet points, but after an error, everything else is an error as well...
 
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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
He should disagree with your 4th bullet point; he says the Gospel engages with him personally. He won't want to differentiate between the Gospel and the Person of the Holy Ghost; but he does. I used to defend him all the time because I thought he taught he needed at least two Graces of God; IE the Gospel and the Holy Ghost. But after a long time, he cleared it up and says the Gospel Alone is the only Grace of God he needs...

This is one reason I said something about Cults using the same Words we use; but there is a lot of difference when it comes to Meaning. Sure, if the Holy Spirit handles the sharp two-edged Sword of the Gospel, this is Efficacious Grace; Irresistible every time...

I could say more about the following bullet points, but after an error, everything else is an error as well...
Click to expand...
Sad thing is he has picked up this new thing about the gospel from Flowers, and he's running with it.

He's excited about it because he thinks this new radical deistic provisionist gospel point of his has slain Calvinism.
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
Sad thing is he has picked up this new thing about the gospel from Flowers, and he's running with it.

He's excited about it because he thinks this new radical deistic provisionist gospel point of his has slain Calvinism.
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Provisionism can't slay Calvinism, when it only has a Sharp One-Edged Sword. He just hacks away with his side of the argument; IE half a Bible...
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Joe said:
Your experience is what I would consider classic regeneration.
  • Living in unbelief and rejecting Christ - By all accounts, dead to God and alive to sin. - Heart is unbelieving, hard and callous towards God
  • Heard about and yet not truly understanding the value of the Gospel while in this dead to God state. Basically it is foolishness, just another religion.
  • No personal calling of God while in this state.
  • At some point in your life, the Spirit of God engages with you and begins personally calling you.
  • This calling makes you aware of the realities of the living Christ, your need for Him, the state of this world, the promises of a new life
  • At this point faith is being wrought by the Spirit of the Lord and the Gospel - The Spirit of the Lord is giving you ears to hear and eyes to see.
  • As the Spirit of the Lord continues to work within your heart, you begin to believe in what you once rejected, and because you do believe you must come to grips with repenting.
  • When the Spirit of the Lord is done; you have belief, the substance for that belief (the Gospel that you once rejected); you now realize your need for Christ; you no longer value your old original life, but value the new life of being forgiven and one with God
  • At this point your heart is no longer stone - unbelieving, hard and callous towards God, but He has given you a heart of flesh - believing, willingly obedient towards God. And it is at this point you call out to God and begin living by the faith that He wrought inside you. It is by the Spirit of the Lord that He gave you a new heart and caused you to live towards God.
Click to expand...
OK
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Joe said:
Your experience is what I would consider classic regeneration.
  • Living in unbelief and rejecting Christ - By all accounts, dead to God and alive to sin. - Heart is unbelieving, hard and callous towards God
  • Heard about and yet not truly understanding the value of the Gospel while in this dead to God state. Basically it is foolishness, just another religion.
  • No personal calling of God while in this state.
  • At some point in your life, the Spirit of God engages with you and begins personally calling you.
  • This calling makes you aware of the realities of the living Christ, your need for Him, the state of this world, the promises of a new life
  • At this point faith is being wrought by the Spirit of the Lord and the Gospel - The Spirit of the Lord is giving you ears to hear and eyes to see.
  • As the Spirit of the Lord continues to work within your heart, you begin to believe in what you once rejected, and because you do believe you must come to grips with repenting.
  • When the Spirit of the Lord is done; you have belief, the substance for that belief (the Gospel that you once rejected); you now realize your need for Christ; you no longer value your old original life, but value the new life of being forgiven and one with God
  • At this point your heart is no longer stone - unbelieving, hard and callous towards God, but He has given you a heart of flesh - believing, willingly obedient towards God. And it is at this point you call out to God and begin living by the faith that He wrought inside you. It is by the Spirit of the Lord that He gave you a new heart and caused you to live towards God.
Click to expand...
Good response even though his seemed quite reluctant, both in the former and latter.
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
Provisionism can't slay Calvinism, when it only has a Sharp One-Edged Sword. He just hacks away with his side of the argument; IE half a Bible...
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You make me laugh

I post verse after verse you and your peers cannot answer and you want to talk about a half bible

You are in need of an introduction to reality as you are living in fantasy land
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
He should disagree with your 4th bullet point; he says he engages with the Gospel personally. He won't want to differentiate between the Gospel and the Person of the Holy Ghost; but he does. I used to defend him all the time because I thought he taught he needed at least two Graces of God; IE the Gospel and the application of the Holy Ghost. But after a long time, he cleared it up and says the Gospel Alone is the only Grace of God he needs...

This is one reason I said something about Cults using the same Words we use; but there is a lot of difference when it comes to Meaning. Sure, if the Holy Spirit handles the sharp two-edged Sword of the Gospel, this is Efficacious Grace; Irresistible every time. But HE himself takes the Hilt of Gospel away from the Spirit; and pricks his own heart...

I could say more about the following bullet points, but after an error, everything else is an error as well...
Click to expand...
sith is a perfect example of using the exact same words with an entirely different meaning than what all Christians believe . Here are a few examples.

All the fullness of Deity
Trinity
Deity of Christ
Incarnation
Resurrection
Body
Gospel
Mediator
Is- present tense
Visible
Invisible
No one , none,
All , everyone,
Hands, Feet, Side,

And I could probably list another couple dozen but these come right to mind off the top.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
The Gospel is Sharp for sure, but it's moot without the Spirit's Grace...
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Yes, Paul spoke of the necessity of the Spirit in the Gospel, in its proclamation &c. This is seen in 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians &c.

Some are denying this necessity today. They've made the gospel an impersonal phrase of words and when a person gives mental assent to the details, they are then pronounced a true believer.

We preach Spirit power in the message, Spirit regeneration, Spirit granted faith, repentance, quickening, new life. Our message is ridiculed and belittled due to those beliefs.

Honestly their message sounds lifeless, impersonal, and inanimate.
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
He should disagree with your 4th bullet point; he says he engages with the Gospel personally. He won't want to differentiate between the Gospel and the Person of the Holy Ghost; but he does. I used to defend him all the time because I thought he taught he needed at least two Graces of God; IE the Gospel and the application of the Holy Ghost. But after a long time, he cleared it up and says the Gospel Alone is the only Grace of God he needs...

This is one reason I said something about Cults using the same Words we use; but there is a lot of difference when it comes to Meaning. Sure, if the Holy Spirit handles the sharp two-edged Sword of the Gospel, this is Efficacious Grace; Irresistible every time. But HE himself takes the Hilt of Gospel away from the Spirit; and pricks his own heart...

I could say more about the following bullet points, but after an error, everything else is an error as well...
Click to expand...
Sorry you are ensnared by gnostic Manichean philosophy. In your view God is a puppet master and men his puppets. He pulls the strings one way and man reacts one way He pulls another string and man reacts in another way. Pull one string and Man hates and rejects God and God for his own good pleasure torments man for eternity. God pulls another string and its I love you like a chatty Cathy doll. But those who string is pull to say i love you are much fewer in that those whose string is pulled toreject and hate God.

You have become a rather ignorant fellow who has no comprehension of scripture or history. No one held your view for the first 400 years of Christianity and it is not the majority view now

and you can't prove your view with scripture

Only someone rather ignorant can make the claims you make

To claim that the idea man can understand what God inspired to communicate with men is the mark of a cult
is truly absurd
 
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F

fltom

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
Yes, Paul spoke of the necessity of the Spirit in the Gospel, in its proclamation &c. This is seen in 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians &c.

Some are denying this necessity today. They've made the gospel an impersonal phrase of words and when a person gives mental assent to the details, they are then pronounced a true believer.

We preach Spirit power in the message, Spirit regeneration, Spirit granted faith, repentance, quickening, new life. Our message is ridiculed and belittled due to those beliefs.

Honestly their message sounds lifeless, impersonal, and inanimate.
Click to expand...
Rather it is you who make the gospel impersonal words

I know the gospel is the very word of God

It was inspired by the Spirit, given to anointed men to preach

trying to tell me God's word is powerless unless he personally delivers it is nonsense

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

not the powerless thing you imagine
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
brother, it is easy to tell when someone is intentionally misrepresenting another poster when they use a phrase the other poster did not say, and expresses something different than what they meant.
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You mean like when YOU do that to ME all the time?
Double standards much?
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Joe said:
Do you find disagreement in any of the points to what you experienced?
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I do not hold that God had to irresistible impart faith if that was what you were claiming

The spirit convicts showing your need the word is sufficient for the remedy
 
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