ow let's look at the next protest and its argument. In response to civic asserting life precedes faith Ephesians 2:5-8 was asserted as evidence to the contrary.
TomFL said:
Ephesians 2:5-8 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised
us up together, and made
us sit together in heavenly
places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in
his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
being quicken is equated with salvation - verse 5
Click to expand...
Josheb
There is nothing in the text equating quickening with salvation and if it were then it's a clear example of life preceding faith! The word in the KJV for "quickened" is the Greek term for making alive. We were dead. We were dead in sins. God made us alive together with Christ and He did so by grace. It is by grace we have been saved. There's no mention of faith in verse 5.
The writer above continues in his series of incredibly weak replies, ignoring texts and argument
Ephesians 2:5-8 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised
us up together, and made
us sit together in heavenly
places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in
his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
being quicken is equated with salvation - verse 5
by grace are you saved
why does he separate it from the rest of the text
quickened together with Christ is being saved by grace
this is the same as what we see here
Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
regeneration as the method by which we are saved
and it verse 8 which for some reason the writer ignores
verse 8 which completes what was begun in verse 5
though it was noted in the argument the writer above ignored it
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
salvation (accomplished by regeneration) is by grace through faith
as was noted
TomFL said:
We know from verse 8 salvation is through faith[,] therefore faith precedes salvation which is accomplished by quickening
Josheb
Again, that's not what the verse actually states. ANYWHERE!!!!! Verse 8 simply states we are saved by grace through faith and it explicitly states that salvation by grace through faith is not of ourselves (I covered this in a prior post). There isn't any place in the entire Bible that states we are saved by faith. We are justified by faith, not saved by it. We're saved by grace, saved by grace through faith and it is NOT of ourselves. Absolutely no mention whatsoever of faith preceding anything except the works for which we are created in Christ to perform, works God had already planned in advance. God is the causal agent of it all, not the unregenerate's will, not the unregenerate's faith.
It does if one actually pays attention to the details and does simply offer knee jerk denials which we have seen in the writers replies throughout all of this series
that we are saved through faith is rather plain from Eph 2:8
as was noted through - dia in the greek in the genitive case notes the instrument or means
4. dia (διά, 1223), “by, by means of,” when followed by the genitive case, is instrumental, e.g., 2 Pet. 3:6, RV, “by which means” (KJV, “whereby”).
W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 398.
some additional verses
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Who does Paul say God saves?
Those that believe
Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
What was Paul's answer to what must i do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
Who must do it?
Isn't the answer rather plain
The writer objections are not founded on exegesis but theology
as he states
"Absolutely no mention whatsoever of faith preceding anything except the works"
through faith. faith as the instrument, the means - the necessary means as shown above
without you cannot be saved
John 3:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
it precedes salvation
It also seems he imagines faith is not of yourself
but as we see it is what man is told to do and does if he is to be saved
the writer would do best to forget his theological paradigms and actually read the text for what it states