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TomFL
Guest
John 20:31 (NKJV)
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,..............................
John is obviously writing to convince men to believe
that applies to unbelievers
The foundation of all salvation.
- Thread starter Carbon
- Start date
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,..............................
John is obviously writing to convince men to believe
that applies to unbelievers
Carbon
Super Member
Where is the convincing part?
Theo1689
Well-known member
So you're dodging, and have no answer to my question.
Thank you for the admission.
So you justify an unBiblical belief by claiming it is an ASSUMPTION.
Again, thank you for the admission.
Well, I can.
But I don't need to, since I have no vested interest in trying to convince you of anything.
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TomFL
Guest
?
Do you write to believers who have life so that they might believe to have life
that makes no sense
Lol. Yeah I dodged the same type of idea you dodge. And that makes you right?
Yeah. Like you believed unconditional predetermination before you knew about Scripture?
You lose.
Yeah. Like you haven't been doing it all along.
Theo1689
Well-known member
You made a bunch of bogus claims about "libertarianly choosing".
I challenged you to support it from Scripture.
But you were unable to, so you brought up a COMPLETELY different subject that we had NEVER discussed.
That's called a "dodge".
And that automatically loses the debate for you.
I've NEVER promoted the issue of "predetermination to hell".
But you DID bring up "libertarianly choosing".
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TomFL
Guest
Kampioen said:
But you must, all things considered, prove unconditional meticulous predetermination, which you can't.
1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
James 1:13–14 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—
But you must, all things considered, prove unconditional meticulous predetermination, which you can't.
But you can't seeing as meticulous determination of all things is unbiblical
1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
James 1:13–14 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—
And your counter-dodge means you're right?
But you do believe God was the first cause that unconditionally effected them to hell, correct? ie non-libertarian?
Sure you do. Admit it.
Theo1689
Well-known member
What "counter-dodge"?
YOU were the one who brought up, "predestination to hell", not me.
Why do you think I should allow you to run away from YOUR problem by trying to change the subject?
This is called "phishing".
And it's still a DODGE, since you can't back up your false claims.
This is what all heretics do.... Mormons, Catholics, Arians, etc.
They can't back up their bogus claims, and so any time they're challenged, they try to change the subject by trying to attack the beliefs of those challenging them.
So we are in agreement that "libertarianly choosing" is unBiblical.'
Thank you for that.
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TomFL
Guest
ask him if he believes the London Baptist confession of 1689
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
Carbon
Super Member
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13.
but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31
Yes, it seems that way don’t it? So it does make sense. Not in the way you worded it though.
So, nothing convincing to unbelievers. I didn’t think so.
So what makes you thinks it written to unbelievers? John said he is writing these things to believers.
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TomFL
Guest
Wrong verse not 1John 5:13 but
John 20:31 (NASB77)
31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
and a different statement
So Morons etc have a counter dodge that you are unable to defend against? Well then maybe you're wrong on your belief that God is the first cause that unconditionally effected people to hell. But you believe God is the first cause that unconditionally effects people to hell, correct? Admit it.
Carbon
Super Member
Oops, I edited my reply. Your tooo fast, lol
Theo1689
Well-known member
Okay, I admit you have ZERO Biblical support for your heretical "libertarianly choosing" false teaching. That's why you have to DODGE by bringing up red herrings that nobody was discussing.
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TomFL
Guest
Wrong verse different statement
but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31
is not the same statement as
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13.
there is no purposed writing that you might believe in 1John
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TomFL
Guest
One is written to those who believe
The other is written that they might believe
One is dealing with believers
The other to get men to believe
Plainly different audiences and aims
Carbon
Super Member
Okay but you still haven’t answered my question.
in which way are these two verses different that one, or both are writing to unbelievers to convince them to believe?
Disregard.
I see you answered
Carbon
Super Member
So you believe John is writing to unbelievers? To get them to believe?