The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

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TomFL

Guest
dead is dead not alive like you believe. thats on you promoting a false teaching and changing the meaning of dead to being able to respond. Dead means unable to respond.

its unbelievable that you refuse to see that basic truth and avoid it like the plague.
That is an assumption

The prodigal was dead he was able to return the his Father

The church at Sardis was dead but they are toild to repent

we read in scripture men receive life upon faith

If they need to receive life then they were dead

The christian dead to sin yet still sins

Sorry you do not present biblical truth

You have presented your assumption

which is contradicted by scripture
 
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guest1

Guest
That is an assumption

The prodigal was dead he was able to return the his Father

The church at Sardis was dead but they are toild to repent

we read in scripture men receive life upon faith

If they need to receive life then they were dead

The christian dead to sin yet still sins

Sorry you do not present biblical truth

You have presented your assumption

which is contradicted by scripture
really really really really really really really poor hermenuetics using a parable as the foundation for your doctrine.

that says it all.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Compatibalism deals with them. Also, the agreement that Grace prevenes the Will deals with it; any Verse that says we can believe should presume that Grace has already made a 'real' difference in our Salvation. After Grace? Sure we can believe...
No it does not

Calvinism puts life before faith

the bible puts faith before life

Compatibilism in any case is just hard determinism hiding under a fake umbrella termed compatilistic free will
 
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TomFL

Guest
really really really really really really really poor hermenuetics using a parable as the foundation for your doctrine.

that says it all.
You ignored the fact multiple reasons were presented which you do not address

The fact is your idea is no where stated in the bible

as was posted

Why do you ignore it ?

I have point out a number of ways your definition cannot fit the scriptural record or even other facets of your theology

this is just the latest and it points out items which have already been mentioned and you failed to deal with

The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

No scripture says " you must first come to Christ to receive life" Where's it at ? Tell me, how can a dead person come ? Do you have anything more than denial to offer John 5:40 (ESV) 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. one comes to Christ by believing on him John 6:53...
forums.carm.org

You address none of it


BTW not to mention the fact of the many verses presented and never addressed showing men receive life upon faith or repentance

again not addressed

nor did your address the conflict with your own theology

now to pretend all that was presented was a parable is not reality

BTW parables illustrate truth


and use in that parable corresponds with one way the term dead is used in reality

not to mention the fact your definition does not fit in this parable which concerns soterioligy
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
The problem I see is the starting point.

We know and believe the truth that men are born depraved and dead in sin and the natural man( who is dead in sin) cannot understanding the things of God(the spirit) for they are foolishness to them and must be spiritually appraised.

This is the biblical starting point and we are all hopeless without God drawing us, enabling us, regenerating us from the dead to be able to respond to Gods call, drawing us to Him. And all He calls/draws will come according to Jesus in John 6.

Its really a difference at a foundational level. They must force those who are dead in sin to be alive otherwise they would be in agreement with us.

hope this helps !!!
I totally agree...

The reason I stay focused on God's Grace is because of my Fundamentalism. I describe myself as a Christian; an Evangelical Reformed Independent Fundamental Baptist, an ABC 123 (elementary/Fundamental) mini theologian. I got Saved in an ARBCA Denomination Calvinistic Church, but eventually moved onto an Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination Church. I think that Fundamentalism has really strengthened my Calvinism; it's the reason I keep talking about God's Grace, it's a Fundamental to All Evangelicals. It's why I talk about Faith Alone to Hard Calvinists; because it's a Fundamental to All Evangelicals. It appears to me that the Fundamental of Faith Alone is the Red-headed Stepchild of the 5-Solas for many Calvinists...
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry that is never stated in scripture

rather it is contradicted by scripture which you are unable to address

Death is separation, you shot yourself in the foot again. Man naturally is dead spiritually to God, so no Spiritual motion towards God. Thats why the scripture says about man naturally Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Jesus says of the natural man Jn 5:40

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And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. Because they are dead spiritually
 
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TomFL

Guest
Death is separation, you shot yourself in the foot again. Man naturally is dead spiritually to God, so no Spiritual motion towards God. Thats why the scripture says about man naturally Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Jesus says of the natural man Jn 5:40

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And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. Because they are dead spiritually
Sorry you are in denial being separated says nothing at all about an inability to be reconciled

And Jesus says nothing about the natural man only that those particular Jews would not come to him. Of course others did

 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry you are in denial being separated says nothing at all about an inability to be reconciled

And Jesus says nothing about the natural man only that those particular Jews would not come to him. Of course others did

Man is dead to God spiritually, wont come to God Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

And he cannot come to Christ naturally Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Because man is spiritually dead.
 
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guest1

Guest
Sorry you are in denial being separated says nothing at all about an inability to be reconciled

And Jesus says nothing about the natural man only that those particular Jews would not come to him. Of course others did

Your foundation is wood hat and stubble since you must redefine nekros . You make the word dead actually mean alive, having life and ability to resign to stimuli .

It’s just the opposite definition in your personal man made dictionary of theology .
 
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TomFL

Guest
Man is dead to God spiritually, wont come to God Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

And he cannot come to Christ naturally Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Because man is spiritually dead.
sorry you ignored the fact others did come (believe)


John 2:23 (KJV)
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.




John 8:30 (KJV)
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.




John 10:42 (KJV)
42 And many believed on him there.




John 12:42 (KJV)
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:




Acts 9:42 (KJV)
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Your foundation is wood hat and stubble since you must redefine nekros . You make the word dead actually mean alive, having life and ability to resign to stimuli .

It’s just the opposite definition in your personal man made dictionary of theology .
Sorry you just assume your definition

while ignoring scripture

and avoiding rebuttal

See 13 reasons showing why the bible can be believed


your failure to address these is proof your definition was not biblically derived
 
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TomFL

Guest
No, they can't.....that verse doesn't negate the fact that No one can come to Him unless it is granted him by the Father.

Yeah they can if

John 6:45 (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

if they hear and learn

from the testimony of others

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 17:20 (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

and the scriptures

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
If one can RESIST lust, then one is alive.

Simple...you think lusting freely is being alive.

You're a slave if you think so.

*edit because I changed my wording.
The question is can a spiritually dead person lust the same as does a physically dead lust?
 
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TomFL

Guest
No, they can't.
Sorry mere denial does not refute scripture

Yeah they can if

John 6:45 (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

if they hear and learn

from the testimony of others

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 17:20 (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

and the scriptures

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

https://forums.carm.org/threads/preaching-the-gospel.560/post-187895
 
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