The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Of course, a sinner can sin, thats a unintelligent question ! Everything a spiritually dead sinner does is enmity against God. Is lust of the flesh enmity against God ?
Can the physically dead respond to the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life? If not, then you cannot equate the spiritually dead with Lazarus who was physically dead.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Can the physically dead respond to the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life? If not, then you cannot equate the spiritually dead with Lazarus who was physically dead.
Calvinists ignore all the inconsistencies of their theology

in that they claim the spiritually dead can respond but only negatively to God

and many admit either freely or when forced to in a debate that the spiritually dead can know certain spiritual truths

A dead body certainly can't know anything
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Can the physically dead respond to the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life? If not, then you cannot equate the spiritually dead with Lazarus who was physically dead.
The Spiritually dead cant do anything Spiritually towards God, he is dead as a corpse. And I already told you a Spiritually dead person, who is Physically alive in the flesh, by nature, is a sinner, so of cousrse he can sin, that's a dumb question. A sinner cant do anything but sin, hes a servant of sin Jn 8:34

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry mere denial does not refute scripture

I'm not the one trying to refute scripture, you are.

Not one scripture verse you posted negates one scripture verse I posted. Scripture doesn't contradict. Nothing you posted negates the fact that no one comes to the Father unless and until it is granted them and they are caused to be reborn.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Calvinists ignore all the inconsistencies of their theology

There are none.
in that they claim the spiritually dead can respond but only negatively to God

They don't respond to God.
and many admit either freely or when forced to in a debate that the spiritually dead can know certain spiritual truths


14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Can the physically dead respond to the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life? If not, then you cannot equate the spiritually dead with Lazarus who was physically dead.

You aren't understanding the comparison....in the same way Lazarus couldn't raise himself is the same way the spiritually dead can't raise themselves to spiritual life.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day

"No one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father"


"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
I'm not the one trying to refute scripture, you are.

Not one scripture verse you posted negates one scripture verse I posted. Scripture doesn't contradict. Nothing you posted negates the fact that no one comes to the Father unless and until it is granted them and they are caused to be reborn.
He will not deal with what it says. He runs off somewhere else and actually tries to refute scripture with scripture. And Calvinism is inconsistent ?
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Then he is not dead like Lazarus, who could do nothing.

Spiritually he is.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Spiritually he is.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Then he cannot be compared to Lazarus who was physically dead; again, prodigal son would be a better analogy, since both did not receive the things of the Spirit of God.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Then he cannot be compared to Lazarus who was physically dead;

Yes, he can and I just explained how.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

again, prodigal son would be a better analogy, since both did not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

The son never ceased being a son. He was temporarily wandering. He's more akin to the wandering sheep that will always be brought back to the fold.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I'm not the one trying to refute scripture, you are.

Not one scripture verse you posted negates one scripture verse I posted. Scripture doesn't contradict. Nothing you posted negates the fact that no one comes to the Father unless and until it is granted them and they are caused to be reborn.
Except it is not scripture but your theology being refuted and you did not address the refutation

Yeah they can if the gospel is presented

John 6:45 (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

if they hear and learn

from the testimony of others

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 17:20 (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

and the scriptures

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

James 1:21 (KJV)
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

nor the 13 reasons provided in the link


Your belief they need regeneration first is what is being refuted

Not that they first need the gospel
 
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T

TomFL

Guest
There are none.


They don't respond to God.



14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
There are plenty

Starting with

in that they claim the spiritually dead can respond but only negatively to God

and many admit either freely or when forced to in a debate that the spiritually dead can know certain spiritual truths

A dead body certainly can't know anything

Include a biblically faulty belief in the meticulous determination of all things

including all the sin of the world

as well as the fact the dead are made alive by God when they believe
 
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TomFL

Guest
Nope. 1 cor 2:14


Nope.
that concerns the deeper hidden things in the mind of God

1 Corinthians 2:7-10 (KJV)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the
things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

and you never address this

 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
that concerns the deeper hidden things in the mind of God

That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...


For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

and you never address this

That has all been addressed ad nauseum.
 
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