The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

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TomFL

Guest
He never ceased being a son.
He was still dead

As was the church as Sardis

So was everyone in need of life

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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TomFL

Guest
That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...


For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.



That has all been addressed ad nauseum.
You ignored context

1 Corinthians 2:7-10 (KJV)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

and you still do not address rebuttal


thus you fail at correlation

I have asked you a number of time to show where all has been addressed

You never do
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
He was still dead

Still a son...

The Parable of the Prodigal Son is found in Luke chapter 15, verses 11-32. The main character in the parable, the forgiving father, whose character remains constant throughout the story, is a picture of God. In telling the story, Jesus identifies Himself with God in His loving attitude to the lost. The younger son symbolizes the lost (the tax collectors and sinners of that day, Luke 15:1), and the elder brother represents the self-righteous (the Pharisees and teachers of the law of that day, Luke 15:2). The major theme of this parable seems not to be so much the conversion of the sinner, as in the previous two parables of Luke 15, but rather the restoration of a believer into fellowship with the Father.

As was the church as Sardis

So was everyone in need of life

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Wonderful verses that do not negate these:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
You ignored context

No. I didn't. The natural man CANNOT know AND DOES NOT RECIEVE the things of the Spirit.

That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...

For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.


But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit....


They are revealed to us, NOT to the natural man.

and you still do not address rebuttal


thus you fail at correlation

I have asked you a number of time to show where all has been addressed

You never do

Read the thread. You are addressed ad nauseum over and over and you continually say you aren't addressed. It's your MO.

speaking of not addressing anything....

Wonderful verses that do not negate these:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Still a son...

The Parable of the Prodigal Son is found in Luke chapter 15, verses 11-32. The main character in the parable, the forgiving father, whose character remains constant throughout the story, is a picture of God. In telling the story, Jesus identifies Himself with God in His loving attitude to the lost. The younger son symbolizes the lost (the tax collectors and sinners of that day, Luke 15:1), and the elder brother represents the self-righteous (the Pharisees and teachers of the law of that day, Luke 15:2). The major theme of this parable seems not to be so much the conversion of the sinner, as in the previous two parables of Luke 15, but rather the restoration of a believer into fellowship with the Father.




Wonderful verses that do not negate these:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day
You never address the use of dead in the parable of the prodigal son

You did not address the use of dead concerning the church at Sardis

just as you never do with the many verses which show life is given upon faith

Again there is no reason to negate the verse you speak of

I affirm it

It is by means of the gospel/the word the father draws

John 6:45 (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

John 5:39 (KJV)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?



as it it is by means of the gospel Christ draws

John 12:32 (KJV)
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 17:20 (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
No. I didn't. The natural man CANNOT know AND DOES NOT RECIEVE the things of the Spirit.

That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...

For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.


But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit....


They are revealed to us, NOT to the natural man.



Read the thread. You are addressed ad nauseum over and over and you continually say you aren't addressed. It's your MO.

speaking of not addressing anything....

Wonderful verses that do not negate these:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day
Yeah you did

God revealed truth to his apostles they preached and some believed

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

and you have not address the 13 reasons posted

nor has anyone addressed them all

Once again you were asked to prove that claim

and once again you failed to do so

I am not talking about running to some other verses and reading your theology into it as is commonly done but the verses themselves

BTW you also ignored what was stated here

Again there is no reason to negate the verse you speak of

I affirm it

It is by means of the gospel/the word the father draws

John 6:45 (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

John 5:39 (KJV)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?



as it it is by means of the gospel Christ draws

John 12:32 (KJV)
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 17:20 (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Romans 10:14-17 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

https://forums.carm.org/threads/preaching-the-gospel.560/post-187895
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
You never address the use of dead in the parable of the prodigal son

1. It's a parable. 2. He is alive 'again'....he was always a son, never ceased being a son, as we never cease being sheep.
There's a reason this follows the parable of the 'lost' sheep.
Sheep didn't cease to be a sheep, just as we, His sheep, shall never perish.
It's about restored fellowship.


It is by means of the gospel/the word the father draws

I'm not arguing about HOW we are drawn...God draws as He chooses....but the fact that UNLESS you are drawn, given to the Son by the Father, you will never come to Him.

Many hear the Gospel and are NOT drawn by the Father and given to the Son.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah you did

The only one ignoring scripture is YOU.


The natural man CANNOT know AND DOES NOT RECIEVE the things of the Spirit.

That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...

For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.


But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit....


They are revealed to us, NOT to the natural man.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
1. It's a parable. 2. He is alive 'again'....he was always a son, never ceased being a son, as we never cease being sheep.
There's a reason this follows the parable of the 'lost' sheep.
Sheep didn't cease to be a sheep, just as we, His sheep, shall never perish.
It's about restored fellowship.




I'm not arguing about HOW we are drawn...God draws as He chooses....but the fact that UNLESS you are drawn, given to the Son by the Father, you will never come to Him.

Many hear the Gospel and are NOT drawn by the Father and given to the Son.
Still you do not address the use of dead

Neither in the parable

or the church at Sardis

Or for that matter

John in this and like verses is speaking of spiritually dead men

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

that they might believe and have life
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Still you do not address the use of dead

Yes, I did.

Again, our MO of pretending something wasn't addressed is on display.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

that they might believe and have life

Wonderful verse....not sure why your quoting it. I'm not disagreeing with it.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
The only one ignoring scripture is YOU.


The natural man CANNOT know AND DOES NOT RECIEVE the things of the Spirit.

That concerns all regarding the spiritual...

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We HAVE the mind of Christ...

For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.


But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit....


They are revealed to us, NOT to the natural man.
You have ignored everything stated

You failed to address what I stated about the hidden deeper things of God

You failed to deal with those who were saved by the foolishness of preaching

You fail to deal with the fact scripture envisions men being saved by the testimony of others

The bible is clear hidden truth was revealed to prophets and apostles. They preached it

some believed and were saved some didn't and were not saved

And the scriptures as well

as was shown

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Additionally see link
 
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TomFL

Guest
That is a lie.


No, I didn't.

I specifically addressed it. I suggest you start paying attention to what is posted.
its the truth

If you believe differently point it out

post 350, 351

Show all men cannot know or believe revealed truth such as the gospel
 
T

TomFL

Guest
It is a lie.


The spiritually dead, the natural man, CANNOT RECIEVE THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT...

1 cor 2:14
That does not mention the gospel

It refers to deep hidden things which were in the mind of God not revealed truth

What I stated was the truth

I asked you about apples and you are speaking about oranges

13 reasons



The
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That does not mention the gospel

It refers to deep hidden things which were in the mind of God not revealed truth

What I stated was the truth

I asked you about apples and you are speaking about oranges

13 reasons



The
Yes it does mention the Gospel as : The things of the Spirit of God" 1 Cor 2:14

4 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
The Spirit, being reborn, has nothing to do with the Gospel?

The context

1 Corinthians 2:7-11 (KJV)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

That does not mention the revealed gospel

It speaks of the deeper hidden things of God

The gospel has been revealed

Yet it says WE know those things because WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST.


Not even remotely.

Yes because they had the spirit

now they could preach those things revealed to them by the spirit and

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

men could believe and those that believe get saved

The idea that men cannot believe the gospel unless indwelt is simply false as one must believe the gospel before they can receive the spirit

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The context

1 Corinthians 2:7-11 (KJV)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

That does not mention the revealed gospel

It speaks of the deeper hidden things of God

The gospel has been revealed



Yes because they had the spirit

now they could preach those things revealed to them by the spirit and

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

men could believe and those that believe get saved

The idea that men cannot believe the gospel unless indwelt is simply false as one must believe the gospel before they can receive the spirit

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
It mentions the hidden wisdom, which is Christ the Wisdom of God. Christ is the Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Christ has to be revealed Matt 11:27


all things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Gal 1:16


To reveal his Son in me,
that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
It mentions the hidden wisdom, which is Christ the Wisdom of God. Christ is the Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Christ has to be revealed Matt 11:27


all things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Gal 1:16


To reveal his Son in me,
that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Newsflash

He has been revealed

It's in the gospel

written down in scripture

preached around the world
 
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