The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

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TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
Yes it does mention the Gospel as : The things of the Spirit of God" 1 Cor 2:14

4 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Sorry context matters

1 Corinthians 2:6-10 (KJV)
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

the gospel is not mentioned

The deeper hidden things of God are

The gospel has been revealed

Colossians 1:5-7 (ASV)
5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
7 even as ye learned of Epaphras our beloved fellow-servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf,
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Newsflash

He has been revealed

It's in the gospel

written down in scripture

preached around the world
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News flash The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Its hid to the dead. Next time you go to a funeral, go read the scripture to the dead one lol
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Sorry context matters

1 Corinthians 2:6-10 (KJV)
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

the gospel is not mentioned

The deeper hidden things of God are

The gospel has been revealed

Colossians 1:5-7 (ASV)
5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
7 even as ye learned of Epaphras our beloved fellow-servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf,
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The wisdom of God [Christ] is hidden to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
The wisdom of God [Christ] is hidden to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3
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Its hidden to those who are perishing because they have rejected truth

not all

many were saved believing the foolishness of preaching

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ASV)
21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

John 17:20 (ASV)
20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
News flash The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Its hid to the dead. Next time you go to a funeral, go read the scripture to the dead one lol
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Except that does not address all

Just those who are perishing having rejected truth
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
The physically dead cannot attain physical resurrection; however, the spiritually dead can attain spiritual life through faith.
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The question is how can you have faith without being made spiritually alive.

Your premise is that dead does not mean dead, Somehow your spirit is able to discern spiritual truths.
This is of course not Biblical:

The key phrase in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead.' With one thunderbolt of apostolic revelation all attempts to give the initiative in regeneration to man are smashed. Again, dead men do not cooperate with grace. Unless regeneration takes place first, there is no possibility of faith.
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brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Its hidden to those who are perishing because they have rejected truth

not all

many were saved believing the foolishness of preaching

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ASV)
21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

John 17:20 (ASV)
20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
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Oh yes, The Gospel Wisdom is hidden to the Lost, its not revealed to them, read it for yourself 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Except that does not address all

Just those who are perishing having rejected truth
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News flash The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Its hid to the dead. Next time you go to a funeral, go read the scripture to the dead one lol
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
You mean spiritually dead cannot respond to stimuli, such as: lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, evil spirits ...
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Of course they can.
They are operating in the flesh which is not spiritually dead.

You have a problem making a distinction between your flesh and your spirit.
Perhaps a review of Romans 8 and Galatians 5 and 1 Cor 1 and 2 might help.

However, if you hold fast to the nonsense that a spiritually dead person can indeed understand spiritual truths, then you are in denial of scripture.

Spiritually dead people come up with nonsense like the JW's the Mormons, Jim Jones, David Koresh, the RCC etc.
 
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TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
News flash The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Its hid to the dead. Next time you go to a funeral, go read the scripture to the dead one lol
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Duh physical death ands spiritual death are not the same

Watch how an unbeliever reacts to the gospel with anger or hatred and ask yourself is a a corpse can do so
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
TomFL said:
You are simply ignoring multiple verses which contradict your claim
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Rich, coming from someone totally ignoring the multiple verses presented, without any attempt to address them.

Address the verses presented and stop playing games.
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
TomFL said:
You quoted a verse which does not teach what you claim
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Then state what it does claim according to you.
Saying it does not teach what the poster claims, is nothing but a sorry attempt at a cop out.

You are the one saying the natural man can indeed understand and respond to spiritual truths.
As shown many times, this is a DIRECT contradiction of what is in the Bible.
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
TomFL said:
I will hold to scripture over your misunderstanding of the term dead
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But you do not hold to scripture.

Do you acknowledge that the natural man cannot discern spiritual truths because it is folly to him?

I don't think you do. As you show here again, you are adamant that the spiritually dead person, can indeed understand spiritual truths, and it is by this understanding that he makes a positive or negative choice to believe.

Plain as day that you are unbiblical.
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
TomFL said:
ignoring scripture and the nature of scriptural death
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And you ignore scripture used in this OP, and make the excuse that everyone misrepresents those scriptures without even the slightest attempt to exegete them.

You keep posting scripture that you are misrepresenting, without using proper exegesis and context.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Manfred said:
But you do not hold to scripture.

Do you acknowledge that the natural man cannot discern spiritual truths because it is folly to him?

I don't think you do. As you show here again, you are adamant that the spiritually dead person, can indeed understand spiritual truths, and it is by this understanding that he makes a positive or negative choice to believe.

Plain as day that you are unbiblical.
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Duh the passage does not say man cannot believe the gospel

and rather context shows some in fact do

Further many verses have been posted showing the gospel can be believed and they have not been addressed

see link
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Manfred said:
The question is how can you have faith without being made spiritually alive...
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It's the other way around.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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