The Free Will of Lazarus and choice

[TomFL]

What was the Prodigal dead to?
Who made Him alive?

His free choice, or his father?

You keep teaching people here that you do not need God and that you are totally capable yourself to understand inspired Scripture in your natural flesh and to make informed decisions which leaves you to hold to a faith.

My question becomes what is your faith in.
It seems your faith was self generated, and can be whatever pretty words you want to add to it, or what sounds right and rings right in the ear.

That is what the tares planted by the enemy does. They have this meaningless self generated faith, that leaves them as nothing more than white washed tombs with dead bones inside.

You totally missed the point

The Son though dead was able to return to the father

His deadness did not mean he could not respond

My faith is in God who gave the scriptures

According to the bible his word is powerful

You make it of no effect dishonoring him

Believe the scriptures

Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

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BTW you failed to support your previous argument

 

[Manfred]

The spirit was needed to inspire the scriptures and to send men to preach

Not in dispute.

Spiritual inspiration and Spiritual revelation are not the same thing.

You keep contending that you do not need revelation to understand inspired scripture.
As do the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses, and other cults. They like you believe they can understand inspired scripture without revelation.

You are in bad company.

 

[Manfred]

You have not show how that changes or effects the meaning of the word dead in the parable of the prodigal son

Ask and answered.

Quote my answers and your response to my answers.

This is the sort of back handed thing you keep doing.

If you want to flog a dead horse, go ahead.

There is a difference in Law and Grace.
What was the purpose of sacrifice?
OT=Law
NT=Grace

 

[brightfame52]

tom

You totally missed the point

The Son though dead was able to return to the father

Lol, you missed the point, the son was dead, so obviously he was made alive, thats evidenced by his return Lk 15:24


For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The Son didnt raise himself from the dead, nor did he find himself from being lost. Christ is responsible for him being made alive, and being found and returning 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word returned is the greek word epistrephō and its in the passive voice, meaning the subject is being acted upon, being returned, to cause to return, to bring back

The parable is giving credit to the work of Christ, to bring many sons to Glory because He tasted death for them Heb 2:9-10

 

[TomFL]

Not in dispute.

Spiritual inspiration and Spiritual revelation are not the same thing.

You keep contending that you do not need revelation to understand inspired scripture.
As do the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses, and other cults. They like you believe they can understand inspired scripture without revelation.

Not in dispute.

Spiritual inspiration and Spiritual revelation are not the same thing.

You keep contending that you do not need revelation to understand inspired scripture.
As do the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses, and other cults. They like you believe they can understand inspired scripture without revelation.

You are in bad company.

You are in bad company.

Duh the scripture is revelation

Hello

Romans 1:16-17 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ephesians 3:3-5 (KJV)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

BTW you failed address my last post

..........................................

You totally missed the point

The Son though dead was able to return to the father

His deadness did not mean he could not respond

My faith is in God who gave the scriptures

According to the bible his word is powerful

You make it of no effect dishonoring him

Believe the scriptures

Preaching the Gospel !​

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...
forums.carm.org
BTW you failed to support your previous argument

https://forums.carm.org/threads/preaching-the-gospel.560/post-187895

 

[Manfred]

You totally missed the point

The Son though dead was able to return to the father

And, what exactly is your point? Look at the context, was he ever dead to his Father? When was his Father not his Father?
Your misuse of context and taking one word in isolation is typical of your sly and back handed approach to scripture.

What is the context of dead in that parable? Him being a Jew under Law, and not a born again Christian under grace.

 

[Manfred]

Maybe you should actually read as I have addressed every single thing addressed to me

You have not.

And this response is more proof.

 

[Manfred]

My faith is in God who gave the scriptures

According to the bible his word is powerful

The Mormons and the Jehovah witnesses say the exact same thing.

What sets you apart from them?

 

[Manfred]

You make it of no effect dishonoring him

Another lie, and sly back handed thing.

Stop projecting your issues.

 

[Manfred]

Duh the scripture is revelation

Duh?

Scripture is inspired. If it was fully revealed then Mormons etc. would not get it wrong.

Perhaps you should take some time to speak to your mentor about the difference between inspiration and revelation.

 

[TomFL]

Another lie, and sly back handed thing.

Stop projecting your issues.

I am not the one who doubts God's word

which says it is sufficient

that is you so

Don't project your disrespect on to me

Address this

Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

forums.carm.org

 

[TomFL]

Duh?

Scripture is inspired. If it was fully revealed then Mormons etc. would not get it wrong.

Perhaps you should take some time to speak to your mentor about the difference between inspiration and revelation.

Perhaps you should just read and believe scripture

instead of denying it

Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

forums.carm.org

 

[TomFL]

The Mormons and the Jehovah witnesses say the exact same thing.

What sets you apart from them?

Unlike you and they I believe the scripture not what other men say

 

[TomFL]

You have not.

And this response is more proof.

LOL

You presented nothing

Which shows your claims are not based on reality but imagination

 

[Manfred]

I am not the one who doubts God's word

which says it is sufficient

I do not doubt the word.

You doubt the word when it says the natural man cannot understand spiritual matters.

In fact you object to it, saying the natural man can.

So stop lying about me.

The scriptures are inspired. The Holy Spirit reveals the spiritual truths contained within inspired scripture.
I hold god and Him revealing His inspired word to me in high regard, unlike you that claim one can believe God/Spirit without believing and whilst being spiritually dead.

So if you want to accuse me, get your story straight.

 

[4Him]

Your first problem is the text of 1Co 2:14

No, I have no problem with it and I addressed your claim.

you stated they cannot believe without regeneration

that is contrary to the verses I posted and you still gave not addressed

No, it isn't contrary to any verse you posted.

your third problem is you have not demonstrated any irresistible grace which effectually causes faith

Except Jesus Himself refutes you...time and time again....

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

[Manfred]

Perhaps you should just read and believe scripture

instead of denying it

I do not deny John 20:31

That is you projecting your beliefs on others.

You think that Inspiration = Revelation and that John 20:31 teaches that scriptures are revealed already and you do not require the Holy Spirit to give you personal revelation.

That is not believing all of scripture, but rather projecting your false teaching ONTO scripture, also known as eisegesis.

I do however believe with all my heart, that if Jesus chooses to reveal the Father to someone, they will be saved and when they read the Bible, they will receive that revelation within, that Jesus is the Messiah.

 

[Manfred]

Unlike you and they I believe the scripture not what other men say

Meaningless response.

Where have I ever said that I believe what other men say?

This answer is a big cop-out.

Your claim is that anyone who reads the Bible has full revelation that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and can therefore make an informed decision as to whether they want to believe, or whether they want to willingly cast themselves into the Lake of Fire.

So a Mormon, who has the exact same resources you have, and who has read the Bible somehow receives a different revelation than you from reading the same Bible.
What does that scripture teach according to you:
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
If your interpretation of the verse above is as you say, why are people making different decisions to yours?
Do you have something different to them. Do you have gnosis, they do not have? What is it?

 

[Manfred]

Which shows your claims are not based on reality but imagination

Right Tom

Why not tell us the difference between Inspiration and Revelation?
Why not tell us why two people who read the same version Bible will come to 2 separate conclusions if there is full revelation to the natural mind.

 

[TomFL]

I do not doubt the word.

You doubt the word when it says the natural man cannot understand spiritual matters.

In fact you object to it, saying the natural man can.

So stop lying about me.

The scriptures are inspired. The Holy Spirit reveals the spiritual truths contained within inspired scripture.
I hold god and Him revealing His inspired word to me in high regard, unlike you that claim one can believe God/Spirit without believing and whilst being spiritually dead.

So if you want to accuse me, get your story straight.

Of course you do

Scripture stated it is sufficient to make one wise unto salvation

You say it is not and requires additional grace

You need to deal with your denial of scriptures sufficiency

Here is where

Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

forums.carm.org