Your position is the word of God the gospel of it self cannot be believed or save
The natural man cannot perceive the gospel in the natural. That is my position.
So I have clearly stated my position.
If you cannot understand it let me know, but do not continue to misrepresent what I say
This despite of what the bible says of the gospel
for example
Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...
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I will not go down a trail of your creation.
I have been clear that the Bible says the natural man CANNOT perceive the spiritual. That it is folly to such a man.
This you refuse to address, because it cannot be refuted.
The best you have done is to say that this verse does not apply to the gospel.
This you cannot back-up.
The truth is that the gospel is indeed spiritually perceived through revelation or "the power of God" of the gospel.
You then asserted that the gospel is fully revealed for all to understand without revelation, because the scriptures are inspired.
With this theory of yours, you make two errors.
1. People hear the gospel mostly and do not read the gospel. The testimony of Jesus is spiritual and not natural.
2. The Spirit of God is the revelator of Spiritual truths.
You then have not made an attempt to explain how inspiration and revelation are the same.
Further you have misrepresented my view
If your view is NOT that you make a choice using your natural free will, to believe prior to regeneration then state what your position is.
refusal to see the gospel as irresistible is not the same as making it powerless
Clarify. Are you saying that someone who receives full revelation of the Lordship and salvation found in Christ alone and the consequences of rejecting God willingly reject it.
I would like to meet the man that will be honest in admitting that he fully understands the imputed righteousness of Christ and that rejection of Christ will automatically cause Him to burn in Hell for ever. I would also like such a man to explain to me HOW he understands such spiritual truths as imputed righteousness without the Spirit of God.
Scripture affirms it may be resisted Heb 4:2
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
No where does this verse say they resisted after receiving full revelation.
They all listened did they not, yet some did not "listen"
It also show it may be believed and does save those who believe
Where does it say that? They all listened to the good news, but the message they heard did not benefit them, they were not united by faith like those who LISTENED
Your hermeneutic and exegesis is not good.
If only you believed the scripture that says those who listen in the natural cannot perceive the spiritual and it is folly to them. Those who listen and hear the spiritual in the spiritual, are enabled by God to listen and hear.
Which you claim cannot be understood
I claim the natural man can hear and not "Listen" because spiritual truths are spiritually discerned.
It is time that you understand my position instead of forcing your errors onto what my beliefs are.
And needs more grace before it may understood and believed
Think about that
Where did that come from? Where have I ever stated such nonsense.
You have to try and force such nonsense onto my beliefs, which is not even the logical conclusion to everything I have been saying for the last 3 months.
So no. I have never asserted that more grace is needed before the Gospel can be believed.
What I have stated is that in order to UNDERSTAND the spiritual truths that Jesus is the messiah. That He was born of a virgin, that he blead and died, and that He rose and conquered death, and that He is the propitiation of sin and that His righteousness is imputed to us and our unrighteousness is imputed to Him, and that He is God, that the TRUTH of this cannot be understood by the natural man.
All the cultists, terrible people like Jim and David had exactly the same information. They believed it..... or did they really...
The very method God has provided for regeneration and, salvation you hold is unable of itself to save or regenerate anyone
and that is not ad hominin. It is your view
The view I hold is that God grants faith (saving faith). He "quickens the spirit of the elect to receive His revelation. As they respond in love He regenerates them.
If you take your bias away and read John 3 you will find the truth there.
Rebirth is a SPIRITUAL encounter with God. It is not something that occurs because you decided to believe without receiving revelation.
So either you cannot understand the position I hold, or you are trying to force your incorrect conclusions onto what I believe.
I see that as denigrating to the word of God even if you cannot
To me, what is really denigrating to the word of God is to ignore the scriptures that do not fit your point of view, or to merely shrug them off.
For example. You need to explain how the natural unregenerate man is able to perceive the Gospel with its spiritual truths, if the word is clear that the natural man cannot.
You further have to show that inspiration and revelation are synonyms.
If I am correct, you believe that John 20:31 teaches that the Bible was written by inspired men, therefore there is full revelation available for those who read it, and you do not need the Spirit of God to reveal the spiritual truths within.
My challenge to you is to prove this. Taking one verse and trying to make it conform to what you want it to say is bad practice.
It is clear that the verse is saying that the book of John contains all the information required for faith. This is obviously trough revelation and not in the natural, because the natural man CANNOT perceive the spiritual truths within the book of John, and people like Jim and David are ample proof of that.
sorry you have affirmed the gospel itself cannot be believed and requires one be regenerated first
That is the fact
Regeneration not the gospel appears as the real power in such a view
This is correct apart from your conclusion which is irrational.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel which is the power of God. God is the one that grants faith through the power of the gospel, and who regenerates those He gives faith to.
What is a laugh? You laugh at the revelation given by God through the Gospel?
You laugh that even while hearing some are not "listening"
You laugh at God who is both the author and perfector of faith?
You laugh because the natural man cannot perceive spiritual truths?
Please explain what deeper hidden things are, and how do they become un-hidden.
This is now your latest claim.
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
I am now officially done with you. You are welcome to reply, but I will not respond unless you misrepresent my position.
I have made my position abundantly clear, and all lurkers can read it for what it is.
People are welcome to their perceptions of me, and they can perceive you for who you are.
You say you chose God, the author of your faith is you.
I say God chose me. In the long run, how can I lose with God being the author and perfector of my salvation.
