The free will systems

Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
According to you pelagians, semi-pelagian or Arminians.

To freewillers the first good begins with man, and the Holy Spirit is only a benevolent wellwisher.

Yep, the real deed, and not the vague desire, begins on man’s side, though he is described in scripture as “dead in sin.”

The evil in your free will system is that you all insert a legal condition which men have to perform, and all ends at last in the law of works, leaving men to apply to themselves as best they can for the benefits Christ purchased.
mankind is thrown back under a “goodly guise” upon the principle , do and live!
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
In these free will systems, the gift of salvation is not given to man, but to his strenuous self application.
This being the case, if it rests on man’s inherent power, he inevitably relies oh his reliance, or believes in his belief. Legalism.

It is a mockery to present the finished work of Christ to men who are taught that they possess inherent power, as this undermines the whole.

It seems to me a full development of these systems appears in preaching a dead faith.
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Carbon said:
According to you pelagians, semi-pelagian or Arminians. ...
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Which one of the three was the publican?
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
Which one of the three was the publican?
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
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The one whom God regenerated so he would have faith to cry out to Him for mercy, showing he was converted. To this one salvation is all of God, and none of his, "Soli Deo Gloria." Your gospel? Not so much. Your gospel is; "Partim Deo Gloria, Partim Hominum Gloria" as you proudly assert, "I am not like other men, I made the right choice."
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
The one whom God regenerated so he would have faith to cry out to Him for mercy, showing he was converted. To this one salvation is all of God, and none of his, "Soli Deo Gloria." Your gospel? Not so much. Your gospel is; "Partim Deo Gloria, Partim Hominum Gloria" as you proudly assert, "I am not like other men, I made the right choice."
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If pg was in the practice of reasoning things out, he may have come to that conclusion himself.

But there’s a blockade in the way. God’s not the boss of me. I have the supernatural power of free will! And when I decide I want to believe, it’s the free willers Power hour!
 
R

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Carbon said:
If pg was in the practice of reasoning things out, he may have come to that conclusion himself.

But there’s a blockade in the way. God’s not the boss of me. I have the supernatural power of free will! And when I decide I want to believe, it’s the free willers Power hour!
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In my opinion free will, as they would define it, is a illusion. A choice known for certain before it is made is not a choice at all.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Carbon said:
Your just not getting it are you
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Unfortunately, he cannot correctly interpret plain passages as witnessed in his mangling of John 11:25-26;

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

It is glaringly apparent Jesus is talking about raising dead believers in resurrection. PG can't have any of Jesus saying that, so he unashamedly goes against the plain teachings of Jesus. Humanistic religion does this to a man.

Nevertheless, even John Wesley got it right: "l am the resurrection - Of the dead. And the life - Of the living. He that believeth in me, though he die, yet shall he live - In life everlasting."
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
In my opinion free will, as they would define it, is a illusion. A choice known for certain before it is made is not a choice at all.
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It is an illusion. The humanistic doctrine of synergism throws all the power of the self on man, it exalts and flatters man’s nature and paves the way to a deeper degradation.

It just keeps getting worse and worse, it’s obvious, consider pg.
 
K

Kampioen

Well-known member
Carbon said:
According to you pelagians, semi-pelagian or Arminians.

To freewillers the first good begins with man, and the Holy Spirit is only a benevolent wellwisher.

Yep, the real deed, and not the vague desire, begins on man’s side, though he is described in scripture as “dead in sin.”
Click to expand...
The evil in your free will system is that you all insert a legal condition which men have to perform, and all ends at last in the law of works, leaving men to apply to themselves as best they can for the benefits Christ purchased.
mankind is thrown back under a “goodly guise” upon the principle , do and live!
Click to expand...
The evil in your system is that you make God the meticulously uncondtional predeterminater of man's "evil free will system" and blame man for it.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Kampioen said:
The evil in your system is that you make God the meticulously uncondtional predeterminater of man's "evil free will system" and blame man for it.
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You're trying way too hard!!!! :LOL:

Instead of your typo laden asinine retort above, why not accept God in all His glory? You know, like Paul; Romans 9:6-29. Like Moses; Exodus 33:18-19. Like Job, when he claimed the same thing we evil Calvinists claim, and in doing so, he wasn't sinning when he said it, nor are we; Job 2:10. Like Peter; Acts 2:39. Like Jude; Jude 1:4. Like Luke; Acts 13:48. Like James; James 1:18. Like John; John 6:37-40, 6:41-50; 6:60-71. Like Calvinists who, unlike you, since you believe you need to get God off the hook, while being appalled at the truth, twist the plain teachings of Scripture into the god you formed to your criteria and then approve of. That's what is truly evil.
 
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PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Carbon said:
If pg was in the practice of reasoning things out, he may have come to that conclusion himself.

But there’s a blockade in the way. God’s not the boss of me. I have the supernatural power of free will! And when I decide I want to believe, it’s the free willers Power hour!
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If pg was in the practice of believing Calvinism, he would realize that God had meticulously decreed the blockade.
 
K

Kampioen

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
So was God evil for planning and determining the sinful actions involved in the crucifixion? Acts 4:27,28
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Acts 4:27 (KJV) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:28 (KJV) For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

God predeterminately gathered them to do their purpose even by intervening in circumstances and directive ideas in people's minds. But He didn't personally predeterminatively conceive their evil for them.

There was both predeterminism and libertarianism involved.

God *predeterminately* gathered the right *libertarian* people around, to get His purpose done.

That is the conclusion that reconciles Scriptures.
 
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